SAGEM Triumph fuel injectors
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  1. #1
    The "Friends" of Officer Frank Poncherello dr_gallup's Avatar
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    SAGEM Triumph fuel injectors

    I was looking up some SAGEM fuel injector specs for another member & came across some old documentation so I thought I'd post it up here. See the attached spreadsheet. As near as I can figure, these are all the original equipment injectors from the first fuel injected Triumph to the last 955i. All 1050's have been Denso, I have no data on them.

    The first two injectors on the list are big old 24 mm diameter injectors, I didn't even remember we sold those to Triumph. We don't have those exact specs in production anymore but I could always whip up a special batch. The last 3 are the smaller 13.2 mm diameter injectors. SAGEM took all the tooling over to France when they sold us off so I can't make them.

    Just thought some of you might find it useful if you're trying to find replacements. Not that they ever go bad.

    A cautionary note; ALL fuel injector manufactures spec static flow rate on n-heptane because it's a pure substance. If 10% of it evaporates it's still 100% n-heptane. Most web sites will give you some ill-defined static flow rate on "gasoline", what ever that is. Gasoline varies by local, time of year and how long it's been since it left the refinery. Not a pure substance & NOBODY actually measures injectors on it. I have given approximate conversions from n-heptane to gasoline but it may have no correlation to billy bobs injector emporium flow claims. Dynamic flow calibration is at least as important as static flow rate but you won't even find it on billy bob's web site because it makes his head hurt. Dynamic flow requires even more careful test condition delineation: voltage, pulse width, pulse repetition rate and injector drive circuitry. What I'm trying to say is, you are best off trying to get OE replacement injectors unless you want to spend a lot of time with Devious completely remapping every variable in the ECU.

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    limey
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    Re: SAGEM Triumph fuel injectors


  3. #3
    The "Friends" of Officer Frank Poncherello protege83's Avatar
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    Re: SAGEM Triumph fuel injectors

    Quote Originally Posted by dr_gallup
    I was looking up some SAGEM fuel injector specs for another member & came across some old documentation so I thought I'd post it up here. See the attached spreadsheet. As near as I can figure, these are all the original equipment injectors from the first fuel injected Triumph to the last 955i. All 1050's have been Denso, I have no data on them.

    The first two injectors on the list are big old 24 mm diameter injectors, I didn't even remember we sold those to Triumph. We don't have those exact specs in production anymore but I could always whip up a special batch. The last 3 are the smaller 13.2 mm diameter injectors. SAGEM took all the tooling over to France when they sold us off so I can't make them.

    Just thought some of you might find it useful if you're trying to find replacements. Not that they ever go bad.

    A cautionary note; ALL fuel injector manufactures spec static flow rate on n-heptane because it's a pure substance. If 10% of it evaporates it's still 100% n-heptane. Most web sites will give you some ill-defined static flow rate on "gasoline", what ever that is. Gasoline varies by local, time of year and how long it's been since it left the refinery. Not a pure substance & NOBODY actually measures injectors on it. I have given approximate conversions from n-heptane to gasoline but it may have no correlation to billy bobs injector emporium flow claims. Dynamic flow calibration is at least as important as static flow rate but you won't even find it on billy bob's web site because it makes his head hurt. Dynamic flow requires even more careful test condition delineation: voltage, pulse width, pulse repetition rate and injector drive circuitry. What I'm trying to say is, you are best off trying to get OE replacement injectors unless you want to spend a lot of time with Devious completely remapping every variable in the ECU.
    Interesting. I didn't even see this post til now. I bought Accel injectors from Jegs spec'd at 26 lbs/hr. I've ran the bike for a a while now and pulled the plugs last night to check that things aren't insanely lean. Plugs looked just slightly brown with a little black around the inner threads and the piston tops appeared smooth and shiny (no pitting). The response down low is a little snatchy but overall, the bike runs good with the aftemarket injectors. ......and they were CHEAPPPPPPPP!

    I agree with Dr. though, there are a lot of variables that should be considered when buying replacement injectors. Maybe I just got lucky I guess.......

    I do plan on buying a TB key and re-mapping the ECU at some point.......waaaay down the road........

    Thanks again Dr. Gallup for the help in getting this info for me!!
    "Laid it down" sounds so much gentler than "crashed horrifically"...almost as if he was tucking it into a cozy warm bed.
    "you forgot the best part....being able to lick your own genitals." -Chewie

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    The "Friends" of Officer Frank Poncherello dr_gallup's Avatar
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    Re: SAGEM Triumph fuel injectors

    Glad they are working for you. You are a bit on the rich side everywhere so there should be no serious side effects. The ones you bought are from the same family so a lot of their characteristics (like voltage correction factors, etc.) will be correct.

    Just a side note to every one else, Wile-E-boar's injectors had sat with fuel in them for a long (unknown) time. He had tried to get them working and gave up and bought new ones. I asked him to send the originals to me. I filled them with Ultra Cleen and flushed them out. 2 flowed exactly on spec but one is dead. It's trying to open but there must be rust or other junk inside & it just can't. I thought that was pretty good given the age and condition these things were in. Had they been either drained or at least stored with some fuel stabilizer they probably would still be in his bike.

  6. #5
    Chicken Strips gonzojournalist's Avatar
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    Re: SAGEM Triumph fuel injectors

    It doesn't list anything for 2002-2004 (last generation 955i SpeedTriple and up to 06' for the 955i Daytona). Did they continue with the SAGEM fuel injection or move to the Denso units like the 1050i bikes?

  7. #6
    The "Friends" of Officer Frank Poncherello dr_gallup's Avatar
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    Re: SAGEM Triumph fuel injectors

    I have no hard data evidence one way or the other for the later 955i's. I suspect they just kept on using the previous model SAGEM injector, that makes the most sense. Someone could probably confirm that. SAGEM definitely did not release a newer injector. Triumph could have switched to the Keihin Denso injectors but I doubt it because they stayed with the SAGEM ECU. They probably just kept using the same part & nobody bothered to update the SAGEM release notes to include the later model years.

  8. #7
    Noob! Wheaters's Avatar
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    This an old thread but thanks for posting the information, it's a big help to me (I'm converting a Suzuki 3 cylinder, 993cc car engine to run on a set of Triumph Speed Triple throttle bodies and it has the first injectors on the list).

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    The "Friends" of Officer Frank Poncherello rnexussix's Avatar
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    Learned something today. Thanks dr_gallup.

  10. #9
    Noob! conkerman's Avatar
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    Arise old thread!

    Found this via google. My first post.

    I have a Yr2000 Daytona and it was standing for quite some time. Has been suffering from a lean misfire on throttle with no load.

    Checked compression. Very good.

    Changed fuel filter and added fresh fuel, was better but still not right.

    Injectors sent for cleaning/testing, up to 25% difference between the injectors and all had reduced flow.

    Thanks to the OP for putting this data up, It may come in really useful.

  11. #10
    The "Friends" of Officer Frank Poncherello dr_gallup's Avatar
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    I'll make you my standing TST offer: I will check them out on the master flow rig and give you a full report on their condition. No charge. PM me if interested.

    Since you already paid someone to test them there's probably not a lot to be gained except I guarantee the accuracy of the measurements, most injector cleaning & flowing shops have very little idea what they are doing. Scary really. I don't know if new replacements are still available. If you buy some used ones from eBay or where ever I can check them all out and hopefully get a well matched set for you.

    I've got data on 1050 injectors now, have not taken the time to see if one of our newer injectors would be a good flow/spray match. If not I could easily cook up some, we make a Denso replacement now.

 

 
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