On off throttle respons Speed '06
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  1. #1
    Noob! erwinko's Avatar
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    On off throttle respons Speed '06

    Hello, I allready posted this question on triumph rat but maybe somebody here has experience with my issue.

    I've got a Speed triple 2006 with some throttle reaction issue.
    Already driven 40.000km with it but the throttle response keeps a pain in the ass!

    When hitting a corner fast, braking into the apex I must use the clutch while I let the the throttle come in. Otherwise it comes in like a kick under the butt. Not so good for preventing a highsider.
    It is possible to get a smooth response but it will take at least a full second to let it come in.
    It's just when you 'release' the gas and let it pick up again.

    When I ride in let say second gear, 4000rpm, letting the throttle slowly roll back it comes to a point where suddenly the engine responds like fully closed throttle (full engine brake)
    It only happens under about 6000 RPM, above is smooth.

    All the kind of usual things are done.
    Like throttle cable free play. Even tried a smaller throttle tube. throttle body balanced. engine timing is correct.
    New transmission dampers. Smaller front sprocket. etc...

    Multiple mappings are tried. played with the F/L switch points, nothing makes it disappear. some mappings make it a little bit better but not good enough.
    A friend had a '05 Speed triple that was nice and smooth in response. His mapping was so lean on my bike that it was like riding a rodeo bull. So that didn't work out either.

    I;ve got a innovate AFR meter (unfortunately the lambda died after calibrating my quickshifter) but the moment that is causing the kick in the butt is not visible like too lean or something.
    The bike runs great (base map is 20214 combined with TOD, adjusted for good AFR) the only issue is that throttle reaction.

    Anybody got some advice to get rid of this bully behaviour?

    Thanks in advance!!

    Bike setup is:
    Mivv Xcone low mount, stock headers
    K&N air filter
    SAI is removed and disabled
    Lambda is enabled
    Last edited by erwinko; 07-30-2016 at 12:12 PM.

  2. #2
    The "Friends" of Officer Frank Poncherello Joe Houle's Avatar
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    A/F ratio is not, and should not be a factor in tuning the 1050. If you want a smooth bike, you must tune for power output. Go back to an un-altered Plastic Tank TOD, reset adaptives, and give that a go.

    the bike SHOULD run the best at ideal A/F ratio, but this bike is a kunt and does what she wants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryanc123 View Post
    Speedtriple.com is like motorcycles meets Monte Python from what I've seen, you either get it or you don't.

  3. #3
    Noob! erwinko's Avatar
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    That's what I tried last week. But this kunt is running even worse on it. While riding on low rpm - low throttle opening (behind some stupid car for example) it feels like it slightly misfires. What I remember from using the afr meter it was running on that moment 16.5 - 17.0
    The fuel map I'm using is in low throttle the 20214 map and is already a lot richer then the TOD.

    Maybe I'll try to give the first percentage throttle openen a little more fuel and see what happens.

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  5. #4
    Noob! erwinko's Avatar
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    Found out that the zard map on the tune-ecu site has some richer L maps, so copied that and pasted in my map.
    It's difficult to get the right changes in the L map without a dyno, so i thought lets give this a try.
    It made a small improvement.

    I Think I'm going to raise the value a little bit more and decrease the ignition advance.
    My mind is on tuning it a little bit down in the first few percentage to get it smooth in stead of such aggressive response

    How do you think about that?

  6. #5
    The "Friends" of Officer Frank Poncherello crashmasterd's Avatar
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    Personally I think you should and ride that bitch like the 2$ hooker she is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Santa 1050 View Post
    Just when you think it can't get worse, Crash comes along and informs you that not only is the glass not half full, but it is stolen and contains a mix of horse semen, urine, laxative and viagra, right after you swallowed a mouthful...
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Houle View Post
    ...no ink and going baconless on your bacon cheeseburger is about the most rebelious thing you can do these days.

  7. #6
    Noob! erwinko's Avatar
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    Hahaha I certainly do, but I don't like it she's putting her teeth in it

  8. #7
    Squidly Diddlers Equito's Avatar
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    G2 Street Tamer Throttle Tube - G2 Ergonomics
    I installed one of these on my '08, and had it tuned (stock bike). Still not perfect, but much better than w/o the tube. The tuner guy didn't really understand what I wanted him do for the on/off transition, so the improvement came from the tube. Not worth it to me now, but I'd probably opt for the "next most relaxed" cam for the tube to smooth things even more.

  9. #8
    The "Friends" of Officer Frank Poncherello Joe Houle's Avatar
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    the TOD should be very smooth. Im thinking you might have an ignition issue.

    I guess I still don't understand what the bike is doing. So you are closing the throttle on corner entry, then choping it open as you turn in?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryanc123 View Post
    Speedtriple.com is like motorcycles meets Monte Python from what I've seen, you either get it or you don't.

  10. #9
    Noob! erwinko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Houle View Post
    the TOD should be very smooth. Im thinking you might have an ignition issue.

    I guess I still don't understand what the bike is doing. So you are closing the throttle on corner entry, then choping it open as you turn in?
    Lets see how I can explain this the best way. (my English is not very well..)

    Situation: Straight road, with at the end a 90 degree corner (corner speed about 40-50 mph)

    What happens: I come towards the corner and at a sudden point I roll back the throttle, start shifting back to second gear.
    Steering into the corner I'm still braking or just off the throttle (engine break)
    In the middle of the corner (apex) I would like to start accelerating so I start rolling the throttle on.
    The engine/drivetrain responds with a bump like my chain is way too loose kind of feeling combined with aggressive engine response.
    I really need to be super gently with the throttle to prevent this from happening. But if I would do this I am almost out of the corner or I have to start getting back on the throttle before the apex.

    It happens also while driving in slow traffic.
    When you let off the gas its like 'bump' engine brake, engine braking is not gently coming in. (not a problem for riding but maybe helpful diagnose the issue)
    Then also when getting on the throttle it's not gentle and feels like a bump. (same way as the corner bump)

    The bump is in this matter that is quite dangerous on big lean angle, that's why I have to use the clutch constantly.

    It only happens under 6000rpm (now with the adjustment its improved and all above 5000 rpm is acceptable.

    Hope you understand

    After the throttle opening the bike runs great. It's strong and fast, really good dosable (dosability)
    It's just the transition from no throttle -> rolling on throttle

    Edit:

    It kind of feels like the bike doesn't respond to the first percentages of throttle opening.
    When looking in tune ecu the TPS seems to work fine.
    It's also adjusted to the right value (by procedure) and calibrated.
    Last edited by erwinko; 07-31-2016 at 01:16 PM.

  11. #10
    Noob! erwinko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equito View Post
    G2 Street Tamer Throttle Tube - G2 Ergonomics
    I installed one of these on my '08, and had it tuned (stock bike). Still not perfect, but much better than w/o the tube. The tuner guy didn't really understand what I wanted him do for the on/off transition, so the improvement came from the tube. Not worth it to me now, but I'd probably opt for the "next most relaxed" cam for the tube to smooth things even more.
    I've had a earlier model speed triple throttle tube mounted (by accident didn't notice the smaller cam)
    This has the same effect but with a longer stroke as the G2 tube. Didn't give much improvement so I went back to the stock tube.
    Maybe I should mount it again and see what all small things together make for kind of difference.

 

 
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