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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, finally asking for some help after chasing this problem around for some time now.

Long story short, once the engine heats up to the point the fan kicks in, the stepper motor starts opening the throttle steadily increasing the revs up to about 2.5k. It seems to react to the engine being revved, ie if it’s just sat idling on the drive it doesn’t happen. It does happen when riding however, regardless of gear. Not great when you’re trying to ride through town, it’s like cruise control you can’t turn off, and 2.5k revs sat at traffic lights is embarrassing too. It can also be triggered in neutral by revving the engine once it’s warmed up.

It seems to have developed since the start of the year with the engine struggling a bit as you open the throttle from low revs, so pulling away from various gears. Over 1.5k revs I’d say the bike performs fantastically.

There’s some sort of fueling issue for sure, it’s been fond of backfiring since I got it almost two years ago, but again it’s slowly gotten worse, particularly the last 6 months. It’s got a Remus can on it so I know the map isn’t ideal- initially it had the standard map on it which I changed to theTune of Death, and I’ve also tried another map that fit closely to the spec of the bike. I intend to get the bike custom mapped but I’d like to clear this issue up first as it seems to transcend the various maps I’ve tried so I think it’s unrelated, at least partly.

Things I’ve done -
  • SAI delete - did this after I first got the bike to stop the embarrassing cannon fire, and it worked for a year.
  • new plugs
  • checked ignition coil resistance and swapped them out one by one with a spare
  • valve clearances adjusted
  • new stepper motor
  • adjusted the TPS, and calibrated the voltage of the of the stepper motor etc.
  • injector cleaner in the fuel


Now I’m thinking either a faulty sensor or injector? But I need to stop troubleshooting myself and spending money on things that aren’t working!

I don’t think any of the things I’ve done have cause this problem as it just gradually appeared over time, not suddenly, or after I’ve done anything.

I’m an amateur at this, most of these things I’ve learnt in the last year and a half, but I’m reasonably competent.

I missed out on most of this summers riding trying to sort this :( so any help is much appreciated!

Any ideas?

Cheers- Kieran
 

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Also an amateur so somebody better qualified may be along soon....
Two symptoms you raised - 1) gradually got worse & 2) pulling away/small throttle openings...
Have you checked the MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure) and look for any cracks/faults/condition of the vacuum pipes to it?
Other possibilities - I would revert to a genuine Triumph map, possibly their Arrow can version, if you haven't already. Personally I wouldn't trust somebody else's custom map.
SAI delete - have you checked the reed valves are properly sealed off?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Col

hadn’t thought about the sealed off reed valves that’s a good one I’ll check those.

Manifold hoses are all connected at least, I check every time I take the tank off because I know how easy they can come apart. I’ll check them over thoroughly for cracks. Maybe I should clamp them or cable tie at the joints to be sure?

I’ll try the arrow map. I trust the other maps enough that they come from the TuneECU website so they are tried and tested and approved but I get your point. I found my engine is happier in general on the Tune of Death than it is on the stock map. My plan was to do a cam shaft swap this year and then get a proper tune done as it’ll be absolutely necessary after the cam change. But I need to fix this first.

I don’t think I’ve done any check on the MAP sensor, I’ll look into the checks that can be done. I’ve only just started thinking in to the sensor possibility. I’ve not noticed anything obviously out of place on the TuneECU screen when the bike is plugged in. Likewise, I can also see that my throttles are reasonably balanced (I think within reasonable tolerance).
 

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Quite a few people have completely eliminated the idle speed control stepper and just put in a manual screw. You could probably find the posts with some searching. I was about to do that but managed to get some oil inside mine and it started working again. But most people with trouble with the idle speed control report low idle speed and stalling while you have the opposite. I would replace the MAP sensor hoses as they are quite old at this point. Leaks there could certainly cause a high idle. Should not need clamps if they fit properly. Look for any possible air leaks down stream of the throttle bodies.

I don't think SAI could possibly have any thing to do with your problem. And despite what some people have posted, tunes don't slowly change so if you had a good one stick with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks dr

Im not looking at the tune as a source of the problem but I might give the arrow tune a go to see if it works better any way.

I was convinced the stepper was the problem which is why I dropped £150 on a new one, only to find it wasn’t the problem. I might be tempted to eliminate it all together in the future though, will see. Agree regarding people having the opposite problem to mine when the stepper is the cause, at the same time I’ve been trying to fix my bike, I’ve managed to fix a friends Street triple that was having idling and stalling problems because the stepper linkage was seized. Unfortunately he’s still having some issues I suspect due to the stepper now being damaged as a result.

My problem seems to be a fueling/air ratio issue (or a sensor thinking there’s an issue) that’s causing the ECU to open up the throttle. Next step I think I’ll take then is check/ replace hoses and MAP sensor, and check the seals around the throttle bodies where it attaches to the cylinder head.
 

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My 2006 does something similar, after 5 or 10 minutes of riding the revs at idle/no throttle will increase to around 2k which as you mentioned makes riding through town interesting. This happens every ride until I do the "12 minute tune" which fixes it for about 6 months.

I don't ride nearly as much as I used to and when I do, I often have my son on the back so the bike doesn't get a good high rev flogging as often as it should. In years gone by with more frequent and spirted riding this never happened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I’ve got new MAP hoses coming so I’ll see how I get on with those, hopefully this weekend. I’ll post an update once I’ve swapped those over.

I’ve tried the 12 minute tune a couple of times in the last few months but it didn’t fix the problem. I also did the reset adaptation in TuneECU after I play around with stuff, which I think might achieve the same thing as the 12 minute tune…
 

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I had similar problem with my 06 model, which went away after replacing all of the original vacuum hoses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well I put in a new filter which was overdue, and replaced the vacuum hoses, followed by a 12 minute tune and the issue is still there. It didn’t seem quite as persistent but after revving the engine the stepper pushes the idle up to 2-2.5k for 5-10 seconds before letting it drop back down again. Didn’t seem to be as bad as it was before, didn’t backfire for example. The engine didn’t hesitate as bad either when opening the throttle those first few percent. So maybe part of the problem was the old air filter, though the old one wasn’t awful, I’ve seen worse.

I also noticed the inside of the throttle bodies, below the butterfly valves, were filthy. I cleaned them earlier this year and it barely done any miles since. Black oily sooty film, worse at piston 1, not so bad at the other too but still a bit dirty. Ive also noticed the end of the exhaust gets dirty very quick too, I’m guessing this is all down to unburned fuel.

So it’s slightly improved but still not fixed. Still to do a road test but I’m waiting for it to be a bit less damp and salty in the road. Also haven’t tried the arrow tune yet. Spent a few hours trying to get the bike to connect to TuneECU with no luck :(
 

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Sounds like you might have bad valve guide seals. Is it using oil? Probably completely unrelated to your idle problem.
 
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