It really depends on how you define efficiency. Torque/displacement is how I generally compare engines.
The Daytona 955i engine is more efficient than the Speed Triple 955i engine.
The 1050 Speed Triple in stock form is a lot more choked down than previous engines - Catalysts in the silencers, precatalyst in the header, uses the same throttle body diameter, velocity stacks, and a smaller airbox than the Daytona.
The 1050 intake cam is also considerably milder than even the 955 Speed Triple engine - and lots milder than the Daytona engine in duration and lift.
The header on the 1050 engine is a good bit smaller than the Daytona.
Also, the fuel tuning on the 1050 is not well matched to what the engine wants - especially in the midrange rpm. And the ignition advance in the 1050 engine is considerable retarded compared to prior engines.
All of this adds to a congested engine with detuned specs compared to prior engines. That is why with simple mods, the 1050 engines come alive.
On the dyno I use, I started with 108.1 rwhp. I have seen as high as 135+ rwhp when tuned for power at higher rpm - that is a 25% improvement over stock with simple mods. I don't know of many bikes that are detuned this much.
With a good header and a few other mods I feel certain that mid-140 rwhp is possible with the stock cams. If you want to replace the cams and shift the torque band higher, 150+ hp is possible.
Well first off, I looked down my intake ports the last time I had the airbox off and after the fuel injectors things are very dirty. Need to do a thorough cleaning of the motor somehow. I'd like to do pretty much everything else you've done so far as well with regard to motor minus the electronics as I'm not planning to go up on compression or mess with timing much. I'd like a decent performance bump up with a focus on longevity and smooth running.
Step one is definately cleaning the engine.
Look in the phone book for Marinas - Mercury Marine dealers stock a product called Power Tune. Get a can of the aerosol version. It is designed to remove carbon in the engine - intake, cylinders, exhaust.
Start the bike up with the air box top removed. Spray a bit of this down in the throttle body inlets and rev the engine a bit. Expect smoke from the exhaust.
It will clean the engine out very well. It is actually designed for two-stroke engines, but I have used it with good results on bike, car, and boat engines - four-stroke, two-stroke, diesel, and rotary.
Well I've been thinking about this 955 vs 1050 thing and the general inefficiency of the 1050 engine.
Well the reason may be simple, if Triumph had to come out with a 1050 Daytona, they'd certainly want the engine to put out a bit more power than the S3 one.
So maybe larger throttle bodies, valves and airbox, more aggresive cams, a bit more ignition advance and compression will accompany the Daytona if and when it happens.
Time will tell.
By the way Dev, did you manage to squeeze in a bit more ignition advance on top of Wayne's 3 degress?
Avi8or - In some places I am running more timing. But I am just getting a chance to tune with the knock sensor/igniton control installed - I am still waiting on a connector from J&S. I will let you know what I find.
Hey, the latest Cycle World says the team which designed the 07 1050 Tiger is the same crew who were working on the 'Busa Killer' project... Could Triumph possibly have some terribly evil monster sitting in Hinkley just waiting to be unleashed in a few years? Perhaps a big bore version of the 675, say a 1350? Ok, I'll post this in a different thread so it doesn't go hijacked.
The biggest issue on the 955-1050 comparison is going to be heads and cam specs.
If the stock Daytona heads flow 111-112 cfm at 8mm in stock form and 121 cfm ported, and with the throttle body connected flow 108 cfm at the same lift. Then the potential is there for 139 hp in stock form, 144 hp with throttle clean up, and up to 155 hp with ported heads.
I don't have specs for the 1050 heads (but will soon), but I expect them to be similar to the Daytona head. The problem is that the cam is considerably more mild (less lift and duration) than the Daytona cams, and the engine is nearly 10% larger. With the same flow numbers, the power potential is close, but the potential torque will be nearly 10% greater than the 955 engines.
Since the larger 1050 has longer stroke than the 955, this means the power limit of the heads and cams will come in at a lower rpm with the same piston speed but increased thrust. It also pulls air into the cylinder differently, so the optimum cam profile is considerably different. This is where Triumph could have spent design money more efficiently on the 1050 engines.
I invest for a living after spending 10 years in the US Army playing Rambo.
I race stuff for fun my whole life. Lots of engine building experience of many types. I do a lot of my own machine work, and all of my own porting work - I have a flowbench and manometer for measuring flow, velocity, and swirl.
I do not race bikes, and never have. I only apply what I know, have learned, and keep learning in the process of playing with bikes. You will never see me answer a tech issue on suspension topics. Engine tech is my passion.
Still, I am not an engine guru. I have known several, and I'm not in their league. I just share what I know and what I learn.
I've won a few championship rings with this one (The red one on the right is mine):