An unbelievable story about a non-(hot)starting 2005 Speed Triple

3262 Views 15 Replies 7 Participants Last post by VWAircooledSociety, 9 mo ago

pablosvk

Discussion Starter · Aug 13, 2021

Guys I am hopeless... 😓

My 05 works great. All cold starts are fine. SOME hot starts are fine aswell. But sometimes, completly randomly, I get stuck when trying to start the bike when hot, because the starter is spining like crazy...but the bike just won't fire up. Turning the bike OFF and quicklz ON again usually works...the worse chance of starting seems to be when the bike sits hot for more than 5 and less than 60 minutes. Then the chances of starting are very poor.

The problematic hot starts look like this:

I have now spend 18 months trying to fix this bike, and I already replaced a lot of parts trying to solve it, including:

2 batteries with the current one beyin a 230CCA Yuasa,
2 sets of spark plugs, CR9EKs, and currently on CR8EK
all 3 ignition coils,
R/R for FH020AA,
the whole throttle bodies assembly,
TPS sensor,
ISCV Stepper motor,
Vacuum hoses on throttle bodies,
Air Temperature Sensor,
Crankshaft Position Sensor,
Starter Selonoid...
I also tried swapping my HP corse short exhaust for stock double cans,
tried different tunes from Tune ECU

...but the bike still sometimes doesn´t start when hot.

Any ideas? I do not want to sell this to anybody in this condition. And I do not really have time to dismantle the bike and sell individual parts on eBay as this would take time...
...I really wanted to fix the bike, but I have no idea how now....

Thanks for any advice 🥴

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1 - 16 of 16 Posts

Bad Santa 1050

· #2 · Aug 15, 2021

I noticed you've not replaced the starter motor or fitted a starter rebuild kit.
I experienced similar starting issues on my high mileage 06 model a couple years back (100k miles at the time). Problem resolved by installation of starter rebuild kit, and disassembling the starter switch block and cleaning all the gunk and corrosion from the metal contacts in the starter switch/button assembly in the switch block, then reassembling.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

pablosvk

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 15, 2021

Bad Santa 1050 said:
I noticed you've not replaced the starter motor or fitted a starter rebuild kit.
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Hi Santa, thanks for your suggestion. I did not touch the starter because I was told that my starter has to be okay, because it is spinning and spinning like crazy. But maybe things are not so simple as you suggest?
Did your bike behave the same? I mean that your starter was spining and spining very fast , but engine did not ignite? Or was your starter sometimes slow when trying to turn the engine? (Mine never turn slow)
Did you sometimes press the starter button and nothing happened? (I thought that this is how bad contacts on starter button would manifest...but again, mine assumption might be wrong.

Thanks in advance for information

PS. By rebuild kit you mean sometnihg like this? Or also to replace the brushes in the starter?
Thanks

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Bad Santa 1050

· #4 · Aug 15, 2021

pablosvk said:
Hi Santa, thanks for your suggestion. I did not touch the starter because I was told that my starter has to be okay, because it is spinning and spinning like crazy. But maybe things are not so simple as you suggest?
Did your bike behave the same? I mean that your starter was spining and spining very fast , but engine did not ignite? Or was your starter sometimes slow when trying to turn the engine? (Mine never turn slow)
Did you sometimes press the starter button and nothing happened? (I thought that this is how bad contacts on starter button would manifest...but again, mine assumption might be wrong.

Thanks in advance for information

PS. By rebuild kit you mean sometnihg like this? Or also to replace the brushes in the starter?
Thanks

View attachment 44274

Hi,

The starter was intermittent. Sometimes strong, sometimes weak. Especially hot starts in summer (37 - 41C).
Yes, that is the same ki m different rebuild kit.

One last thought - try replacing the Fuel Pump Relay.

Back in February this year, I did have intermittent starting issues.
It turned out the fuel pump relay would work, right up until the starter button was pressed. New Relay solved it.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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dr_gallup

· #5 · Aug 15, 2021

Seems to be an electrical problem, either it's not getting spark or the fuel pump isn't running. When it doesn't start can you hear the fuel pump prime? If it does there should be enough pressure to at least fire.

pablosvk

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 16, 2021

dr_gallup said:
When it doesn't start can you hear the fuel pump prime? If it does there should be enough pressure to at least fire.

Bad Santa 1050 said:
One last thought - try replacing the Fuel Pump Relay.
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

My fuel prump prime sound is always there nice and tidy, without any hasitations.
When I experience the hot start issue (turning the crank, but mixture not igniting) I can also smell a lot of fuel from the exhaust. It stinks a lot, and it also sometimes does a "pop" like if the mixture ignited for a split second but was not able to ignite again...

Do you guys think I might have the OPPOSITE problem? Having too much fuel?

One guy just told me a story about his bike, when his fuel pressure regulator went bad, delivering too much fuel into the engine, causing the bike to burn more fuel than supposed to (mine mpg seems excesive aswell) and his bike also did not start when hot. He had the same problem, starter turning and turning but not igniting. He said that opening the gas helped to start the bike. With mine, opening the throttle sometimes helps aswell. Important thing to realize is that it is then opening the buterrfly valves on throttle bodies (leting more AIR into the mixture) which helps it ignite, and NOT spraying more fuel (becasue it already has A LOT)...

Theory is, that a broken fuel pressure regulator pushes excesive amount of fuel into the injectors. Making the mixture hard to ignite.

I removed my throttle bodies. This is the inlet port a few centimeters above the injector. It is completly damp there. At the bottom there is actually a small pond of gasoline.
Am I right, that it should not be so wet in there? (weird sentence huh

)

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dr_gallup

· #7 · Aug 16, 2021

You may be on to something. Normally, these bikes like you to never touch the throttle during starting but if it's too rich then giving it lots of throttle might get it to fire. I had a turbocharged Mustang that had a hot start problem. The heat soak from the turbo to the carb was so bad you could hear the fuel boiling in the carb. I would put a pair of vise grips on the fuel line to close it off, start the car and jump out and remove the vise grips. I replaced the engine driven fan with an electric one that would run after shutdown and that solved the problem a little more elegantly.

pablosvk

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 16, 2021

Haha @dr_gallup so you became an importatnt car part yourself for a moment - a living fuel restrictor

Just out of curiosity, this was one instance where I experienced the hot start issue and decided to try to roll the gas and it helped immediately.

Watch my right hand - twisting the throttle helped instantly (However, there are situations where even the WOT does nothing (maybe when the bike is too rich, hard to say)

One thing is certains. On many ocasions, where I failed to start the bike when hot....I just turned the igniton OFF, went away for an hour or a day...came back when cold(or colder) ...did not even move the bike....just turned the key on....and the bike started within a split second without problem (as if the excesive gas has evaporated?)

I think I will just order new fuel pressure regulator, new fuel filter and we will see...

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Bad Santa 1050

· #9 · Aug 16, 2021

Fuel pressure regulator was one of the things being considered in my circumstance at the start of the year. .
I too had mixed success starting with lean start - throttle wide open.
However, when it wouldn't start, there was no fuel smell in the exhaust at all.
I almost set fire to it and bought a Hayabusa... good thing my mechanic solved it when he did.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

pablosvk

Discussion Starter · #10 · Aug 16, 2021

Bad Santa 1050 said:
I almost set fire to it and bought a Hayabusa... good thing my mechanic solved it when he did.

Was this the case where the starter rebuild kit helped? Or is this a separate situation where your mechanic replaced the fuel pressure regulator on your bike aswell?

Bad Santa 1050

· #11 · Aug 17, 2021

pablosvk said:
Was this the case where the starter rebuild kit helped? Or is this a separate situation where your mechanic replaced the fuel pressure regulator on your bike aswell?

No, the starter rebuild was a separate issue about 12-18 months earlier.

We didn't end up replacing the fuel pressure regulator. He kept switching the ignition on and off, and could hear the fuel pump relay working, and could hear the fuel pump priming - but the lack of any fuel coming from the exhaust pipe had him perplexed. And that the bike would actually start intermittently but not reliably. He had the idea to swap out a relay - upon doing it threw a fault code for the system that he switched the fuel pump relay, but started immediately, first time every time from there on.

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SPEEDTRIPPER

· #12 · Aug 18, 2021

Seems strange if it smells of fuel and is flooding that when it fires it runs clean and doesn't sputter etc...
Just an observation from the video.

sussurf

· #13 · Aug 18, 2021

Upgrade starter, ground, solenoid & charging cables to thicker guage.

SPEEDTRIPPER

· #14 · Aug 18, 2021

Yep a good ground to the starter is definitely a must do mod on the trips !🤘

Jaket

· #15 · Jan 23, 2022

ones I traded bikes with a mate after a coffee stop. he said he couldn't get my bike started. I took over, pressed the start and it started like always. problem was that my bike doesn't like any throttle at start. if you give throttle it just spins. Could be related to the injection map. the hot value for fuel injection. when your bike is cold you are in totally different area of the fuel map.

VWAircooledSociety

· #16 · 9 mo ago

I have the solution.....Savage from the UK suggested changing the Power and Ground leads to Bigger Battery Terminals and Leads as well the headlight bulbs to LED..... What happens when the bike gets hot it raises the resistance in the wiring and bigger leads decrease the Resistance. Thicker Wires but same Length. So I making a kit with instructions here in the USA

Bicycle part Rim Automotive tire Auto part Cable

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