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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 2007 S3 broke down last November 2020. It was the Starter. It got cold here in NY and then I was busy this whole year and never had a chance to fix it. Left the bike outside with a full tank of Gas but the bike wouldn't turn so wasn't able to add/mix the Stabilizer.
Fast forward to 13 months later, I finally had a chance to go and replace the starter and put the bike back together. But the bike would not start which I wonder if is due to the 13-month old gas? So took the gas tank to a friend's shop and emptied the whole tank on a 5-gallon drum by flipping the gas tank upside down. While shaking the tank, this piece fell off from inside the tank. I am the 3rd or 4th owner. I know I didn't drop anything in the Tank. Does this belong anywhere inside the Tank? Not the Hat! :p:cool::ROFLMAO:
Looking at the OEM Fuel Pump diagram, I don't see this piece anywhere in the Fuel Pump? Is this maybe a valve or stopper or floater of some kind?
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Thank you All.
 

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That is not from inside the tank.
That is the collar and nylon bush, that the retaining bolt at the rear of the fuel tank slides through. I'd say as you were shaking the tank, it has slid out.

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In terms of why it won't start, there's a world of possibilities...

Is fuel getting to the fuel rail?

Are you getting spark?

Does the fuel pump prime when you switch the ignition from off to on?

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That is not from inside the tank.
That is the collar and nylon bush, that the retaining bolt at the rear of the fuel tank slides through. I'd say as you were shaking the tank, it has slid out.

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Hey Bad Santa,

So in the 4 yrs that I have owned this bike, I have removed the gas tank 100's of times. Since I had the bike, I have never seen that piece. So it was always missing. All I had was that 3" long screw and the nut which are #12 & #15 in that diagram.

Also, I took the gas tank by itself in my van to my friend's Transmission shop where I dumped the old gas in the drum.
No fittings or screws or nuts or bushings went with the gas tank. They are all still on the bike in Brooklyn and the gas tank by itself is in my van. And while shaking I am 100% sure that it fell out from inside the tank. This means that one of the past owners or a mechanic accidentally dropped it in the gas tank and of course left it in there.

Well, good to know nothing is broken as I don't need to open up the Fuel pump for now.

Thank you All.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
In terms of why it won't start, there's a world of possibilities...

Is fuel getting to the fuel rail?

Are you getting spark?

Does the fuel pump prime when you switch the ignition from off to on?

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So this Wednesday hopefully I shall have a chance to go back to Brooklyn and troubleshoot everything you mentioned above. But first I am going to add about one or two gallons of fresh gas now that the tank is emptied out.
And I have a feeling that will get the bike to start. Fingers crossed! 🤞

The fuel pump does prime. No doubt about that. Just the way the bike sounds when trying to start, I can tell that the issue is with the gas. I just hope that the old gas and the gum from it didn't clog up the jets?

Any advice on maybe adding some cleaner or additive in the gas tank with the fresh gas before I try to start the bike again?
 

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The fuel pump does prime. No doubt about that. Just the way the bike sounds when trying to start, I can tell that the issue is with the gas. I just hope that the old gas and the gum from it didn't clog up the jets?

Any advice on maybe adding some cleaner or additive in the gas tank with the fresh gas before I try to start the bike again?
I spent over 40 years as a fuel system engineer and 37 as a fuel injector design engineer including the SAGEM injectors used on the earlier Triumphs. Just saying so you know this is not just some internet idiot's uninformed opinion. I used to offer free fuel injector testing to all Triumph owners on the SAGEM master engineering flow rig. Testing, NOT cleaning. But I retired at the end of March so I can't do that any more.

First, one of the worst things you can do to any vehicle is let it sit for extended time but at least you had the tank full so it shouldn't have absorbed too much moisture. Stale gas will lose the light ends that vaporize first which does cause hard starting. But if the engine was getting fuel you should smell raw gas coming out the exhaust. You can always spray some starting fluid in the airbox. If it fires then you know the problem is fuel system and not spark.

Second, these bikes are fuel injected so no jets. But fuel injectors can get deposits just like carbs which can restrict flow or worst case stick closed or open. I'm not a fan of miracles in a bottle but if you do get it running and it runs rough then some injector cleaner MIGHT be beneficial. I prefer Techron because it's from a real fuel company who does real research and testing. Lot's of people swear by Seafoam, to their credit it has been around a long time and doesn't seem to have killed too many engines but I would never use it.

I don't trust the vast majority of aftermarket shops that offer fuel injector service. Most of them will remove the strainer basket and reverse flush the injectors with who knows what solvents. This can do far more harm than good as it can introduce carbon and dirt particles inside the injectors where there are numerous nooks and crannies just waiting to get crap in them to later stick your injectors open or closed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I spent over 40 years as a fuel system engineer and 37 as a fuel injector design engineer including the SAGEM injectors used on the earlier Triumphs. Just saying so you know this is not just some internet idiot's uninformed opinion. I used to offer free fuel injector testing to all Triumph owners on the SAGEM master engineering flow rig. Testing, NOT cleaning. But I retired at the end of March so I can't do that any more.

First, one of the worst things you can do to any vehicle is let it sit for extended time but at least you had the tank full so it shouldn't have absorbed too much moisture. Stale gas will lose the light ends that vaporize first which does cause hard starting. But if the engine was getting fuel you should smell raw gas coming out the exhaust. You can always spray some starting fluid in the airbox. If it fires then you know the problem is fuel system and not spark.

Second, these bikes are fuel injected so no jets. But fuel injectors can get deposits just like carbs which can restrict flow or worst case stick closed or open. I'm not a fan of miracles in a bottle but if you do get it running and it runs rough then some injector cleaner MIGHT be beneficial. I prefer Techron because it's from a real fuel company who does real research and testing. Lot's of people swear by Seafoam, to their credit it has been around a long time and doesn't seem to have killed too many engines but I would never use it.

I don't trust the vast majority of aftermarket shops that offer fuel injector service. Most of them will remove the strainer basket and reverse flush the injectors with who knows what solvents. This can do far more harm than good as it can introduce carbon and dirt particles inside the injectors where there are numerous nooks and crannies just waiting to get crap in them to later stick your injectors open or closed.
dr_gallup,

Thank you for the reply. Great write-up!
I agree and have read up about not using any cleaners as they can cause more harm.

Yes, I meant injectors and not jets!

I am still planning to go today hopefully before it's too late. Just stuck right now working on my domain. Hoping that it fires up after adding fresh gas. Keep you all posted. Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Okay, so I finally went to the garage but didn't have much time and so didn't stop to pick up a starter fluid. Got 2 gallons of fresh gas.
No luck. It still sounds to me more of a gas issue than a spark. You can hear the fuel pump priming in the video. This bike's battery needs to be more than 12.74 volts to start the bike. It was charged to 13.2 and it's fine but the bike needs to start within 2 or 3 tries which normally starts right away. So after a few tries, it was draining the battery. I hooked the jumper cables to my van and tried to charge the bike's battery. I have read NOT to turn the car on as it can fry some electric parts of the bike due to the high amps on the car battery. But I wasn't having luck. After several tries, I decided to leave the car running and try to start the bike. After that, I wasn't hearing the fuel pump priming.
Do you all think that I now fried some electric sensor or the pump? Or maybe it was flooded? I couldn't smell anything as you may hear me sniffling in the video because it is very cold and windy and I was outside.

 

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F&$k I hate that sound - I have heard it far too often the past 2 years...

I don't think you've fried anything. One jump started my bike many times from other vehicles with their engines running.
Different story perhaps if it were a large truck running a 24V electrical system.

Whilst you trying to start, see if you can feel anything coming from the exhaust.
Try starting once with throttle closed.
Then ignition off then on, and try starting with throttle completely wide open. Then again with closed. Observe during this process and see/listen if the engine turns over/spins quicker in any of those cases.

Your observations should help to identify what is or isn't happening.

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
F&$k I hate that sound - I have heard it far too often the past 2 years...

I don't think you've fried anything. One jump started my bike many times from other vehicles with their engines running.
Different story perhaps if it were a large truck running a 24V electrical system.

Whilst you trying to start, see if you can feel anything coming from the exhaust.
Try starting once with throttle closed.
Then ignition off then on, and try starting with throttle completely wide open. Then again with closed. Observe during this process and see/listen if the engine turns over/spins quicker in any of those cases.

Your observations should help to identify what is or isn't happening.

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Thank you Bad_Santa,

I don't think you've fried anything. One jump started my bike many times from other vehicles with their engines running.
Yes, good to hear that, and I hope you are right. 🤞 I shall first make sure to hear the pump priming.
Try starting once with throttle closed.
Yes, I always do that with this bike but shall keep that in mind next time.
Then ignition off then on, and try starting with throttle completely wide open. Then again with closed. Observe during this process and see/listen if the engine turns over/spins quicker in any of those cases.
Okay. I was listening to this several fast pop sound that usually comes from under the air-box when I know the bike is starting to get fuel and a couple more tries and it then catches. And I think I barely heard it at the end. But still not good enough.

I shall try everything you mentioned here when I go next time I think on Sunday.
Also, I need to prop up the gas tank from the front up and check if the gas is flowing from the fuel hose. Not under the tank. I know the gas is flowing from the fuel pump under the gas tank to the hose. But I need to remove the hose at the fuel rail and see if its not clogged there first.

Then I shall leave the gas tank propped up and remove the air-box and see there and next make sure I am getting spark.

Any advice I shall appreciate it.

In the meantime Merry Christmas all.
 

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So I just had this similar problem on my 2009. I replaced the battery, cleaned the spark plugs, and rebuilt the fuel pump, with no change. I ordered a used feul pump from ebay and no change. I got fed up and brought it to the Triumph dealer and they also said it was the fuel pump assembly. It ran perfectly off a spare tank, so there was no vacuum leaks or anything else to worry about, so they were sure it was the pump. They tried two new OEM fuel pump assemblies $330 and still no difference. Finally they tried flipping some relays around and it started to run again. Voltage was always there when they tested, but they couldn't determine the amps. It turned out to be a $26 relay. I posted a picture pointing at the relay. I hope this helps you.
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
bajagold_2000,

HaHa, that sounds sweet!. I actually already planned to pick up a new Relay and also just yesterday brought mine with me home to match it when I go to AutoZone.

I went yesterday and first checked the fuse. Which was fine. Then tested my Fuel Pump. Check out this video. (The link is at the bottom)
It seems like the Fuel Pump is priming but it's very faint and can barely hear that. I am not sure why? Is it maybe because the gas tank is leaning and there is only 2 gallons of gas all the way in the bottom and nothing by the pump?

Then tested the Relay and it wasn't clicking. The relay was working fine a week ago. So I now plan to go back with the new Relay and first I want to see if the fuel is reaching all the way to the rail and I want to see the injectors.

I plan to just clean everything. I have had the bike for 4-5 yrs now and never had the injectors cleaned. I ordered the kit and it should arrive today. I shall drain the 2 gallons of gas I have in there. Considering taking the tank home, then remove the fuel pump to just clean it but shall have to order a new gasket. Depending on how long the gasket will take, I shall then plan to remove the pump. But first I want to make sure that the fuel pump is working by making sure that while on the bike, the pump is priming after I install the new relay hopefully today.

Keep you all posted.


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Every time I've let mine sit for far too long, the fix has always been; fresh gas, fresh charge on the battery, and a new set of plugs. If you're still running the stock tune try this next time. Hit the starter for 3-4 seconds, let it go for a second, and hit it again. My '07 wouldn't start any other way when it was new.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Every time I've let mine sit for far too long, the fix has always been; fresh gas, fresh charge on the battery, and a new set of plugs. If you're still running the stock tune try this next time. Hit the starter for 3-4 seconds, let it go for a second, and hit it again. My '07 wouldn't start any other way when it was new.
Hey HockeyFan,



Cool, thanks, man. I shall try that today.

I ride the bike year-round, even in the winter. The bike only sits for a while when something is broken and I have to wait to get time to fix it. Sits for 2 or 3 months tops. Never this long 13 months like this time. And whenever in the past, I would drain the tank and start with fresh gas.

I am not sure what happened this time. I guess rushing and excited to get it running I didn't think of draining it till after I tried to fire it up. And if the gas was real gummy could it have clogged the injectors so bad that it now won't start till it's been cleaned thoroughly?

The battery is plugged in the tender and back fully charged and it's only a couple of years old. Has a couple more years of life left in it and it's still good.

Also the plugs. I replaced those two years ago and haven't had many miles on them yet considering it has sat for so long. But I shall remove them and check them again. Also shall check for sparks.

I plan to go today to my garage after I pick up a new Relay for the Fuel Pump. And first, make sure that the pump is working and I can hear it priming. Then shall take your advice and fire it up as you mentioned.

Whether it fires up or not, I still plan to remove the airbox and take a look at the injectors if they are plugged up. I received the Injector cleaning kit yesterday.

Okay later. Shall know more later today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So I am starting to give up. One more try and then maybe just take it to a shop or find me a mechanic.

Got the new fuel pump relay. The pump is priming really well. Removed the injectors and this is my first time dealing with the flow.
Your thoughts on how it's spraying out? Does it look good?
I was totally wrong. I was expecting them clogged up so bad hence not starting.
I thought I knew this bike well and from the sound of not firing up, it sounds to me fuel.
But I am wrong. So the next thing is the spark. In this video, you can see spark but maybe not good enough. Also, I only tested one plug from the right cylinder. Should I be testing all 3?
But if I do that then I might as well install new plugs, as HockeyFan mentioned. They don't cost that much.

Your thoughts? Could definitely use everyone's feedback here. Thanks.

 
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