They make very subtle claims for not to get caught for false ones. I don´t know if there is huge power lurking in the header no matter who makes them. The stock one does not look very bad after removing the pre silencer.
Arrow exhaust for 07 S3
I have a friend who is a GM of a Triumph dealership. He initially told me that the Arrow exhaust for the 07 S3 would be full Ti, probably cost $2000, and was good for 8-11 hp (I think he had it confused with the Arrow full Ti exhaust for the 675). I spoke to a parts guy at the same dealership the other day and he said the Arrow exhaust was stainless steel with a Ti silencer and cost $1200. He could not give hp or tq figures.
I called Arrow and they said the exhaust was specially built for Triumph and any hp or tq numbers or dyno charts would have to come from them. I left a message on a Triumph PR guys voicemail but have not heard anything back yet.
I was looking through The Magazine of Triumph today and saw that the Arrow exhaust was worth 4ps. I Googled ps to hp conversion and found out that they are almost equal, 1ps=.98 hp. WTF!! Arrow, a well respected maker of exhaust systems makes a full system for the 07 S3 and it's only worth 4 hp! I can probably get 4 hp by removing the precat from the oem header, coating the full pipe, and installing a BMC air filter. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. Even the Zard full system makes 6 hp.
Devious, bro it is up to you to make a decent header...no pressure!?
Fred
I called Arrow and they said the exhaust was specially built for Triumph and any hp or tq numbers or dyno charts would have to come from them. I left a message on a Triumph PR guys voicemail but have not heard anything back yet.
I was looking through The Magazine of Triumph today and saw that the Arrow exhaust was worth 4ps. I Googled ps to hp conversion and found out that they are almost equal, 1ps=.98 hp. WTF!! Arrow, a well respected maker of exhaust systems makes a full system for the 07 S3 and it's only worth 4 hp! I can probably get 4 hp by removing the precat from the oem header, coating the full pipe, and installing a BMC air filter. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. Even the Zard full system makes 6 hp.
Devious, bro it is up to you to make a decent header...no pressure!?
Fred
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
G
It really depends on what you want, and where you want to make it.
Cleaning up the stock header and removing the precatalyst will be the biggest bang for you buck.
I have issues with the stock header - poor collector design, poor matching where each casting connects to tubing, too small collector for primary diameter. Then there are the primary and collector lengths.
You can make a good bit more power at higher rpm by using larger diameter piping - but at the expense of low rpm torque. The issue is that this will not work well with the stock cam timing. The header should be designed as a system that matches the rest of the engine - most importantly the cam events and head flow.
The 1050 engine is nearly 10% larger than the 955i engines, yet the intake cam duration is 10 degrees less than the 2002+ Speed Triple, and 25 degrees less than the Daytona cams.
By increasing the primary inside diameter slightly, managing flow restrictions, correctly matching the pipe lengths, and designing the collector better, additional power on the top end can be had without losing anything at low rpm.
Now, if you want to design a better cam...
Cleaning up the stock header and removing the precatalyst will be the biggest bang for you buck.
I have issues with the stock header - poor collector design, poor matching where each casting connects to tubing, too small collector for primary diameter. Then there are the primary and collector lengths.
You can make a good bit more power at higher rpm by using larger diameter piping - but at the expense of low rpm torque. The issue is that this will not work well with the stock cam timing. The header should be designed as a system that matches the rest of the engine - most importantly the cam events and head flow.
The 1050 engine is nearly 10% larger than the 955i engines, yet the intake cam duration is 10 degrees less than the 2002+ Speed Triple, and 25 degrees less than the Daytona cams.
By increasing the primary inside diameter slightly, managing flow restrictions, correctly matching the pipe lengths, and designing the collector better, additional power on the top end can be had without losing anything at low rpm.
Now, if you want to design a better cam...
The thing is that how much power can be obtained with special header. If it is 5hp, you barely notice it on the road. Spending 1000-2000$/€ for something you barely notice is a bit steep by my standards. One option is to design and fabricate the header myself but it involves much. The actual bend and weld is the easiest part. I have made 4-1, 4-2-1, 2-1 and 1-1. I usually have more or less copied the best in the market or just calculated the pipe and left it like that. I do not have enough enthusiasm to test a dozen different designs to find the optimum.
It's 5hp, but how about the torque?
Devious,
I read on Triumphrat.net that you would buy the AG Hammer exhaust it not building your own. You have posted that you don't like Ti exhausts because the welds break. Have you change your mind? Any tq /hp figures on the AG?
Fred
I read on Triumphrat.net that you would buy the AG Hammer exhaust it not building your own. You have posted that you don't like Ti exhausts because the welds break. Have you change your mind? Any tq /hp figures on the AG?
Fred
G
I DO NOT like Ti exhausts based on past experience. But The AG Hammer/Hamaguchi is the only one that I like. The spring loaded primaries are not going to be an issue with welds cracking - none are used on the collector-primary union, and the header flanges are completely CNC from billet Ti. IF I was going to buy an aftermarket header, the AG Hammer would be the one I would choose.
If you know how to weld, cracking shouldn't happen.
Devus,
Not to ask questions ad nausem...but I find this exhaust thing interesting. Would you get the AG Ti header only and use it with, say, a stainless steel mid pipe and slip-on from another manufacturer or buy the complete AG system?
Fred
Not to ask questions ad nausem...but I find this exhaust thing interesting. Would you get the AG Ti header only and use it with, say, a stainless steel mid pipe and slip-on from another manufacturer or buy the complete AG system?
Fred
G
BWAaaahaa hahaahahah!kuhlka said:If you know how to weld, cracking shouldn't happen.
That is the funniest thing I've heard all day!
I guess that's why they're putting steel headers on the arrow system?
Titan can be welded without the seams becoming brittle. Our company has made pressure vessels and heat exhangers of titanium in the past. Those were for process industry (pulp and paper). I just called our welding instructor (IWS). He said the purity of the Argon is one of the keys. Normal 99.99% is not pure enough and they used 99.998% Other thing is how much energy is brought to the workpiece. Cleanliness is the number one. Rule of thump is if the seam turns blue when welding, there is something wrong. I am not a professional welder. I work with machining and tooling. I can get the exact information from our welding engineers or quality manager if you like.Devious said:BWAaaahaa hahaahahah!kuhlka said:If you know how to weld, cracking shouldn't happen.
That is the funniest thing I've heard all day!
G
My laughter above was not intended to be at ANYONE's expense, or to show my ego. I have absolutely nothing to prove here - and even less to gain.
Put a piece each of Ti and steel in your hand and you will notice that the Ti feels warmer. This is because Ti does not transfer heat as well as steel.
Guys, it is not just the welding that makes Ti brittle, it is simply the welds that tend to crack first when used in exhaust systems - mostly due to the change in material thickness. The heat cycling and resulting expansion and contraction, as well as the material hardening, tend to make Ti a poor material for exhaust for several reasons. The weight reduction is not worth it IMHO, and is only slight compared to thin wall 321SS tubing. It is "sexy" to use right now on bikes (just like carbon fiber), because _______ uses it on his race bike. That doesn't make it a better material - especially on a street bike.
The very first Ti system I had crack was an Akropovic - not my welding. I have seen Ti crack straight down the center of the tubing. I have NEVER seen Ti last in two-stroke or rotary use, or in forced induction uses. These are just my experiences - nothing more.
There is a reason F1 cars use Inconel for exhausts, even though it weighs considerably more than Ti.
I prefer to use materials and coatings that perform well for the intended use. If your bike is not tuned to make improved performance, Ti may hold up fine for you. But if this is the case, WHY use Ti at all? Why spend the additional money on Ti when you will have left power still on the table? It will also prevent you from using coatings and/or wraps on the exhaust that can make even more power.
The Speed Triples are SO mildly tuned, the added cost to reduce weight compared to making more power, is a poor decision for increased performance IMHO. Use what you want, it is your bike.
I am simply adding my .02 to this discussion. Take it with a grain of salt (it is worth even less). Just do as much research on this as you can, and make your own decisions.
Put a piece each of Ti and steel in your hand and you will notice that the Ti feels warmer. This is because Ti does not transfer heat as well as steel.
Guys, it is not just the welding that makes Ti brittle, it is simply the welds that tend to crack first when used in exhaust systems - mostly due to the change in material thickness. The heat cycling and resulting expansion and contraction, as well as the material hardening, tend to make Ti a poor material for exhaust for several reasons. The weight reduction is not worth it IMHO, and is only slight compared to thin wall 321SS tubing. It is "sexy" to use right now on bikes (just like carbon fiber), because _______ uses it on his race bike. That doesn't make it a better material - especially on a street bike.
The very first Ti system I had crack was an Akropovic - not my welding. I have seen Ti crack straight down the center of the tubing. I have NEVER seen Ti last in two-stroke or rotary use, or in forced induction uses. These are just my experiences - nothing more.
There is a reason F1 cars use Inconel for exhausts, even though it weighs considerably more than Ti.
I prefer to use materials and coatings that perform well for the intended use. If your bike is not tuned to make improved performance, Ti may hold up fine for you. But if this is the case, WHY use Ti at all? Why spend the additional money on Ti when you will have left power still on the table? It will also prevent you from using coatings and/or wraps on the exhaust that can make even more power.
The Speed Triples are SO mildly tuned, the added cost to reduce weight compared to making more power, is a poor decision for increased performance IMHO. Use what you want, it is your bike.
I am simply adding my .02 to this discussion. Take it with a grain of salt (it is worth even less). Just do as much research on this as you can, and make your own decisions.
In my opinion titanium is unnecessary Hi-Fi for bikes. Like you said thin wall stainless or even coated mild steel is easier to handle and costs way less and performs the same. We used titanium on certain highly corrosive environments.
So are you saying that you can't coat the titanium parts (the silencer) on the arrow system? I was thinking of coating it black like the headers.Devious said:It will also prevent you from using coatings and/or wraps on the exhaust that can make even more power.
Gotta have black exhaust system!! ;D
Ti doesn't burn/oxidize until around 610 °C, right? Exhaust headers shouldn't ever get that hot...
I have measured 600 C on the outlet of a car exhaust (several meters) on a dyno. The header turns cherry red easily.
Ah, well that'd make sense. However, that wouldn't happen on the street where you've got air flow cooling the bike off.
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Triumph Speed Triple Forums
A forum community dedicated to Triumph motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Recommended Communities
