Brakes, e-bay, and Alaskans

3848 Views 38 Replies 10 Participants Last post by J-Pip, May 14, 2007

G

Discussion Starter · Sep 14, 2006

After reading tsc17 thread about upgrading the brakes by using Tokico calipers from the late model GSXR (04, 05, 06) or Katana, I started searching e-bay for 600/750/1000 GSXR calipers and master cylinders. I found a nice NEW complete set with lines at a reasonable price... and got out bid by AlaskanS3. The price went up, up, UP, until I realized it was him. Remind me not to turn my back on him - he's tenacious!

I wound up finding a set of calipers for USD $31.00, and bolts for $12.50. Now I just need to find a master cylinder that allows keeping the Pazzo Levers. If they can't be made to work on the Suzuki MC, I may wind up ordering a new shorty brake lever for the Suzy part. A set of banjos and lines and this will be a cheap upgrade.

Side note - my 2005 bike has not had problems that many describe with soft lever feel, but I am not a fan of the delayed braking the stock system offers.

tsc17 thread on GSXR brake upgrade on TriumphRat - http://www.triumphrat.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=59002&forum=19

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

racecomp

· #2 · Sep 14, 2006

Fit a Brembo GP M/C and you fix the problem that you will have the first time you do a trackday!!!!
I have used GSXR brakes and they are an improvement the OEM item but they are crap compared to Brembo!!!! Trust me I know what I’m on about here!!!! Brembo's with Bendix carbon pads are the best of the best. Unfortunately they are big $$$ for 108mm callipers. I use 100mm four pad four pot Brembo’s with my Ohlins set-up and they are awesome. I have never had brake fade with this set-up and I use the hardest braking track in Australia to test them on………

G

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 14, 2006

I think my shoulder will keep me from doing any more track days (other than 1/4 mile) on bikes, so the GSXR may do what I need and firm up the feel.

Now doing track days in the GT500 Shelby I have on order is another deal.

kuhlka

· #4 · Sep 14, 2006

I've got a GSXR600 radial master cylinder and my brakes have been perfectly stiff. Even after coming home 2 weeks later the lever is still spot-on. Any master cylinder will work with any calipers as long as it pushes fluid and uses the same banjo ends on the hoses. The main difference between radial and standard is more fluid being pushed, has a bleed nipple right on the MC, and the radial is a bit bigger.

G

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 14, 2006

I have been looking at several master cylinders, but keep coming back to the 19mm GSXR 600/750/1000 unit. And Pazzo makes a lever for it.

Fill it with DOT 4.5 synthetic high temp fluid like I currently use.

I am looking at EBC HH pads. Any other suggestions?

Avi8or

· #6 · Sep 14, 2006

Twin brake lines from the MC. One to each caliper.

G

Discussion Starter · #7 · Sep 14, 2006

Aviator,
I have heard the dual line argument before, but I don't understand it. Please explain.

If the lines are split at the MC, or down on the calipers, or even on the fender, what is the difference other than volume in the system? The only way to change fluid moved is to change MC diameter or stroke.

Dual lines go against what I THINK I know about hydraulics - keep the lines as short as possible and as stiff (non-expanding) as possible, with free flowing connections.

What am I missing?

AlaskaS3

· #8 · Sep 14, 2006

My bike didn't have much of a problem with the brakes untill I got home last night. I was gone for three weeks, and I thought I'd give the brake lever a squeeze, BAM all the way back to the bar. I'm glad you didn't push on the price any more Devious, although I would have outbid you, I didn't want to go any higher.

I'm curious about the advantages about dual lines myself...

G

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 14, 2006

THERE he is! [email protected]#$% ~*^&$

Outbid? That sir, sounds like a challange. Next time I won't play nice when I know it's you.

My plan is to have a local shop make braided stainless lines with a "T", like the stock system, but using the correct length and stainless banjo fittings to fit the Tokico calipers and GSXR MC. Unless someone convinces me otherwise.

Tight TL

· #10 · Sep 14, 2006

I don't get this whole brake "upgrade" thing. When I first considered an S3 I read a review by MCN wherein the testers said the brakes gave the shortest stopping distance thay had ever recorded. Not long after that I got on triumphrat.net and read about some brake problems. I searched the whole site and read every brake thread. A Triumph salesman from California said the problem was the brake caliper pistons...not the master cylinder, or the ss lines, or air in the system. The pistons had not received some sort of special coating. The fix was to replace the pistons with pistons from the 675 which were identical and had the special coating. Triumph was aware of the problem and had quietly begun upgrading the S3 pistons. I even called the salesman and talked to him at length about the problem. Apparently I'm one of the lucky ones. My brakes are better than any of my previous 7 motorcycles. I roadraced a Honda Hurricane and then a Honda F2 with stock two piston Nissan calipers. I loved them. Guys on Kawasaki's with the Tokico's were always complaining about their brakes. I think the stock 4 piston Nissin calipers and thre 320 mm rotors are the bomb. I won't be upgrading anything except the pads when they wear out.
Fred
BTW...I'll be using Ford Motorcraft Dot 3 fluid when I bleed my brakes. It's the best Dot 3 fluid on the market. If you want to learn more about motor oil, filters, chain lube and brake fluid go to bobistheoilguy.com. A staggering amount of information...for free!

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G

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 14, 2006

Fred,
Only recently have I become concerned with my brakes and I have an early 2005 model. The added power needs quicker reacting brakes in my mind. Even with Pazzo Levers, the lever moves a good amount before the brakes start to grab.

If you shop around, this upgrade should be possible for less than USD $150.

The ONLY problem I have with bobistheoilguy is that it is slightly slanted. He is an Amsoil distributor. I have the oil bible, but there are a lot of great oils that are missing from it. Good info there for the main part.

G

Discussion Starter · #12 · Sep 14, 2006

Devious,
The advantage of using two lines is the elimination of the crossover line with the single set up. Just makes it easier to bleed, that's all.

G

Discussion Starter · #13 · Sep 15, 2006

X-Rod,
That is the only difference I could come up with. Thanks for confirming it.

kuhlka

· #14 · Sep 15, 2006

Two lines doesn't necessarily make the brakes easier to bleed, but it eliminates the crossover, which can possibly get bubbles caught. The 05+ however has a T-joint instead of the old crossover line so bubbles should be less of an issue except at the master cylinder, which has no bleed nipple in stock form. If you get a banjo bolt with a bleeder built in, or a master cylinder with a bleed nipple on it, you'll come close to completely eliminating the mushyness problem. I had my GSXR MC on with the stock calipers on my 03, but still had issues with mushiness coming back over time. This leads me to believe it was a problem with the calipers allowing air into the system somewhere (piston seals or bleeders probably).

Now that I've done a complete 05 GSXR swap, the brakes are spot-on and no mush has appeared even after letting my bike sit in the garage for two full weeks while on honeymoon. Normally, I'd come home even after a weekend and be able to pull my lever to the grip.

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G

Discussion Starter · #15 · Sep 17, 2006

I am looking at two ways of routing lines. The first is using custom braided lines similar to the stock routing. The second is using adapters to keep the stock lines - if possible. A bleed nipple at the top is a must.

The biggest issue has been getting a GSXR MC at a reasonable price. I found and won the bidding on a low mileage complete system with calipers, lines, MC/lever, and reservoir. It cost me the same as a seperate MC/lever assembly.

I assume I need to order a set of brake pads for the GSXR to fit these calipers. Is this correct?

kuhlka

· #16 · Sep 17, 2006

Yep.

G

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 17, 2006

Thanks.

E-bay seller has two sets or EBC HH pads for both front calipers for $45 USD total. I'll be ordering today.

chinookmark

· #18 · Sep 18, 2006

What about using other model year GSXR brakes? I'm fond of the gold color, so I was planning on using calipers off of a 03-04 gixxer. Is there a significant difference in calipers?

And how much performance would I be losing by using said bike's master cylinder? I think it is a 5/8" non-radial, as opposed to the 3/4" radial from the 05's.

G

Discussion Starter · #19 · Sep 18, 2006

Mark,
The later GSXR's (600/750/1000) use a 19mm - 3/4 in MC. I think the earlier models used a 16mm unit.

I know the Tokicos from 03-07 are the same part, and were supposedly used on the Katanas as well - but I am not positive yet. Other years may use the same calipers - I'm no GSXR expert.

Changing color is easy. The local autoparts stores have a miriad of colors for high temp caliper paint.

I should have an extra set of calipers (gold) later this week. If anyone wants them at a very fair price, e-mail me ( h2o_drag at yahoo.net ).

G

Discussion Starter · #20 · Sep 23, 2006

I've been doing some research into brake fluids for the upgraded brakes. After searching out many specs for fluids, I found where someone had put it all in one place.

Cut and paste this into your browser address window: http://www.swedishbricks.net/700900FAQ/Brake Fluid Comparison.htm

Very good info. And like I had suspected, Castrol SRF looks to be a hands down winner. I've been using this stuff in a couple of other vehicles with good results, and will soon be running it in the Triple.

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

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