[Guest]

This really should be in a maintainence post, but it directly concerns tuning as well:

After breaking in the engine and running the TOR exhaust and map I have a good bit of carbon on the pistons and on the backside of the outboard intake valves in cylinders 1 and 3. Before I got serious about tuning with Tuneboy, I wanted to clean this out. Carbon build up alters air flow and compression, not in a good way.

I bought some Power Tune from a local marina (yep, boat stuff) that is a Mercury Marine Dealer. It comes in two forms: Spray can (for shooting down the throttle body bores), and in liquid form to add to fuel. This stuff works! I have used it on very expensive race engines for many years. I also use a Gumout product called Regain, a quarter bottle added to the fuel once a month - but I had not been using it on the bike prior to this. Regain can be bought at auto parts stores and even at Walmart.

Keep the carbon build up to a minumum and performance and wear will both be improved. A borescope can really show how bad the pistons and valves can get under normal riding.

I hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

I'll take you up on that one Dev. now I have a great idea,I wonder if I could get before and after shots with my digital camera through my borescope. I'll give it a try ( if I ever see my bike again!!)

 

[Guest]

I tried getting a couple of photos through my borescope - without luck. Perhaps you can succeed where I failed. My digital cameras are nothing special - as you can tell by some of my photos.

 

[Guest]

Mine isn't the latest buy I'll give it a try ( if i ever get the bike back!!)

 

[Guest]

As a side note, I run a tank of fuel with Regain through the bike before each dyno run, and I still have to make a clean out pull on the dyno before I get good, repeatable numbers. The first pull is generally down by as much as 2.5% power and torque - before the carbon is cleaned out.

 

[Guest]

Wow, that is a chunk. I did borascope during my Kuhlka SAI plate install. I couldn't get any pictures however. I don't know exactly what " normal" would be, but it looking like more than I have seen on some other engines ( a little black crust line around the edge of the valve). Dev, do you think that I should use an additive like regain( or what ever you would suggest) once in a while or would I just be tossing money down the hole??

 

[Guest]

I didn't use Regain or Powertune until after 1000 miles - the engine was encrusted with carbon, even the outside intake valves on cylinders 1 and 3 had carbon on the back side. I used Powertune at 1000 miles to remove a good bit of carbon, and Regain has kept the deposits low using it once a month, or before dyno runs.

The only reason I can determine for these engines to be building up carbon more than others is that either the chamber design is poor, or there is more spacing (reduced squish) between the piston and head than there should be.

 

[speedydave]

Have you ever tried seafoam? It worked well in my Jeep.

 

[Devious2xs]

I have used Seafoam, and Techron, and...

Regain and Power Tune work best for me. But the deal is to use what you like, and do so regularly.

 

[blackb1ade]

I'm interested in this thread and am keen to get a hold and try/use some of the Powetune and Regain - but - I'm struggling to find an equivelant over here [UK].

I have been using this stuff (particularly as I store the trackbike and the SP3 over the winter months) http://www.expresslube.co.uk/fueldoctor.htm is that any good as an equivelant? Or is it nowhere near as effective?

 

[HarriS]

I remember on the Bandit forum couple of years ago, where people told about excessive carbon buildup on their engines. Some tuners there recommended regularly using this and that engine decarbonizer. I was a bit surprised because my engine was almost totally clean. A wipe with a rag was enough on assembly. Is there something in your gasoline that causes this? I remember when USA car enthusiasts here in Finland imported cars and second hand engines from the states and the first thing to do was to tear the engine apart and scrape a bucketfull of soot and carbon deposits or the engine would blow if fed local gas and oil.

I also read from Hot Rod magazine years back where people regularly told about getting "bad gas" from this or that station. Some even used filter sreen on their fillers to collect the crud. I remember some old tests here from 70's and early 80's where some brands of gas caused carbon buildup but that has been long gone. There is nothing wrong with the gas here apart from the price.

 

[blackb1ade]

Could it be down to the added Ethanol? (we have a certain %age as bio-ethanol IIRC, but not so much as the US I believe)

 

[Devious2xs]

A lot of it is a result of SOME of the oxygenates in the fuel over here (MTBE, etc.). The fuels with ethanol actually burn cleaner. But the big deal is that until recently, the US allows a higher amount of sulfur in its fuels than other places. High sulfur levels leave a good bit of carbon in the engine.

Some brands of pump fuels burn fairly clean (have much lower sulfur levels), but they are not available in all locations. And you can definitely notice the difference between an engine that has been run on good fuel, and one without.

The allowable levels of sulfur in fuels here is dropping, and will soon match Europe and Japan.

 

[HarriS]

Pretty much all the gasoline in Finland comes from one state of the art refinery. Some oil companies add their own additive packages but they are pretty much comparable in quality.

Recently I have read from European newspapers that the US refineries are mostly outdated and running at the edge of their capacity. Oil companies are reluctant to invest in modern refineries because the added capacity would lower the gas price. Simple as that. Why spend billions of money to cut down profit?

 

[Devious2xs]

In the mid 1980's, the US has 19 refineries. We are now down to 11-12 - running at max capacity - fuel usage has increased. The reason for the reduction in refineries was simple - no one wanted them in their back yard and they were slowly forced to close as regulations became more and more strict. AND local governments bowed to the pressures of the GREEN factions that have no touch with facts.

Opening a new refinery is VERY difficult in the US these days - just like the rest of the world. Several US companies are trying to build new ones, but are finding it difficult to fight local governments and the GREEN factions.

One of the biggest reasons that Europe is paying such high fuel prices (other than taxes), is the lack of refineries. But the ones there are more modern than here, in most cases.

The sulfur content of fuel here has been in a downward trend for years, but will not meet that of Japan (lower than Europe) for several years. We ship clean crude from Alaska to Japan, and buy high sulfur crude from places like South America - bass-ackwards IMHO.

 

[cwb4tx]

Some brands of pump fuels burn fairly clean (have much lower sulfur levels), but they are not available in all locations. And you can definitely notice the difference between an engine that has been run on good fuel, and one without.

Any data anywhere on the best brand/type to run?

 

[HarriS]

One of the biggest reasons that Europe is paying such high fuel prices (other than taxes), is the lack of refineries. But the ones there are more modern than here, in most cases.

In the news the reason is the lack of US refinery capacity and low US reservoirs and the arriving hurricane season in the US. And the holiday season is close in the US ( and here also) and that means the demand is increasing and the reservoirs are still low in the US... GODDAMMIT! GET RID OF THOSE HUMMERS AND SUBURBANS.

Finnish Fortum refinery ships gas to the US too. The price before taxes is actually quite low.

 

[Devious2xs]

GODDAMMIT! GET RID OF THOSE HUMMERS AND SUBURBANS.

I would LOVE to see them all gone. I don't own one, I DO own an F250 diesel pickup that gets 23 mpg - but I have to have that for towing boats. I also have a small Lexus SUV that gets great mileage, and the Lotus that sips fuel.

Until the US gets serious about rail and public transportation, there is no end in site to our fuel usage. But it will never be the same as Europe - we like to travel and the US is a much bigger place than Finland.

 

[HarriS]

It would be interesting to compare the average fuel consumption per mile or km between US and Europe. Two times more in the US or even more than that? The best and only way to cut the unnecessary guzzling would be taxes steering people towards higher mileage vehicles but that would be a political suicide just like like banning the firearms. Higher mileage and more efficient engines definitely can be made but the dirt cheap gas makes them not so high in priority. That has also kept the US a bit of a backyard of vehicle tehnology in recent years. More steel and bigger engines compensate for R&D.

But the Fortum for example is no saint either. They made an all time highest and sky breaking profit after the hurricane catarina wiped out your rigs in the gulf. They refined the steady flowing Russian crude at steady price and just raised the price of the gas. The key people of the Fortum got unbelievably high (by our standards) and totally effortless bonuses and options. The best part is that the company is state owned. The reason was some fucked up bonus deal. There was a huge disagreement even including the government of Finland. But nobody could do anything about it. The deal was a deal.

Enough of the politics. Anyway something HAS to be done sooner or later.

 

[Devious2xs]

Out of curiousity, what vehicle(s) do you drive?
What mileage do they get in liters per 100 km?

Strangely enough, the most common vehicles in the US are Toyota and Honda cars that get decent mileage. The SUVs and trucks are simply more visible.