[Guest]

I've been doing a few measurements and working some formulae to make my own thin wall stailess header for my 2005 Speed Triple.

Stock header primary OD - 1.525 in. (38.73mm)
Stock collector OD - 1.745 in. (44.32mm)

Zard primary OD - 1.548 in. (39.32mm)
Zard Collector OD - 1.960 in. (49.78mm)
[thanks Littlefield!]

Arrow primary OD - 1.48 in (37.5mm) - .049 thick tubing
Arrow collector OD - 2.0 inches (51mm)

Daytona primary OD - 1.614 in. (41mm)
Daytona collector OD - 2.125 in. (54mm)
[THANKS Steve]

I am thinking that 1.5 inch primaries (with anti-reversion cone) with a step to 1.625 inch might make the on-off-on throttle transition a bit easier - especially with a touch more compression. Primary length is close, but cylinder #2 is going to be a touch longer than the others - this should be good for low end power, and help pulse tuning.

Using a merge collector with a 12-14 degree cone that transitions to a 2 inch OD collector. Tune collector length for best average power and use a seperation canister to remove the pulse tuning from the collector and the mid pipe.

Ceramic coat and wrap the header, and run the $_ _# out of it.

Now to cut the header flanges out on the mill, build a welding jig, and finish ordering the tubing.

 

[racecomp]

Standard Daytona pipes are: Primary OD 41mm and collector OD 54mm with a good tapered cone.
I struggle to get thin wall stainless in any size that I want other than inch and half or two inch, etc. I can’t find a local tube manufacturer that offers a full size range of tube and ball drawn bent bends. I’ve got some real nice 1D radius bends that I use for the turbo manifolds they are awesome. I get them from Italy

 

[Guest]

RaceComp,
Thanks for confirming the Daytona OD's. What are the diameters for the aftermarket Daytona headers like the Black Widow, etc.?

Based on my calculations, I want a touch smaller than the Daytona headers, with a longer collector. I just need to manage friction and restrictions.

I can get tubing bent (ball mandrel) locally, it is just hard to locate the thin wall tubing - especially in 304 SS. I have a line on some, we'll see if it pans out.

If you don't mind sharing, who is your supplier in Italy?

 

[racecomp]

I'll dig out the paperwork with the address on it, no website they are old school.......

 

[Avi8or]

I make my Zard at 40mm OD average for the headers and 50mm average for the collector.

 

[Guest]

Avi8tor,
Thanks. That is probably closer to the design size that what is posted above from Littlefield.

 

[Avi8or]

With the bending and shaping of the tubes it's highly unlikely the diameter would remain constant. Also it's pretty difficult to get a proper vernier read with the bellypan in position.
The few readings I managed to get were all + - a wee bit the stated values.

Furthermore ZARD being Italian, one can safely assume that it would have to work with metric stock and what is readily available.

40mm and 50mm would be a safe assumption for size, keeping in mind availability point of view, even though say, for arguments sake, 49.3mm and 51.3mm would 'more ideal'.

 

[Guest]

Very true.
Also one manufacturer's tubing OD and ID may vary considerably from the next manufacturer - even within the same tubing spec and wall thickness.

 

[Guest]

I have the tubing ordered. The header flanges are started and will incorporate a port matched anti-reversion cone.

Primaries - 1.5 inch OD 0.035 in. wall thickness. (0.065 thick stock)
Collector - 14 degree taper to 2 inch collector 0.035 wall thickness.

The primaries will feed into a VERY clean merge collector with fire cone and tapered collector.

I will also cut and weld a slip joint to the Trident mid pipe and fit it to the header.

Internal area should increase by over 8%. With the correct primary and collector lengths, the target hp peak is 9500 rpm.

 

[Avi8or]

SO basically you'd be in the ballpark Zard diameters for the primaries and collectors....38.1mm (40mm) and 50.8mm (50mm).

 

[Guest]

It depends on the wall thickness of the Zard pipes, but yes, it should be close for the peak power rpm I am targeting.

The big deal (in comparing the two) is not the diameter, but the length and shape of primaries and collectors. The merge collector with diverging cone, and AR tubes in the flanges will alter things quite a bit as well.

I think the Zard and Arrow designs are close, but not quite there. They are forced to make some compromizes due to the production pricing limitations.

I have seen a well designed header gain 3% power and widen the torque band by simply adding a well designed merge collector. But they are expensive (and time consuming) to produce, and can add 50-100% to the price of a header.

The reason I am going with 0.035 inch (0.889mm) wall thickness is to reduce weight and increase interior area. In a 1.5 inch OD, going from 0.065 inch to 0.035 inch wall thickness reduces weight nearly 54% ( 0.065 inch Ti is only about 42% lighter than SS), and interior area increases 8.82%.

The AR cone in the flange will add low end torque and throttle response.

When all of this is added to heads that have increased compression and have a bit of port clean up, power throughout the engine's rev range should increase. With custom cams, even more is possible. But the header design will still work very well with a TOTALLY stock engine.

I am interested in making peak power at a maximum or 9500 rpm, so that the overall nature of the engine and bike does not change. Shifting the powerband anymore than this is not preferable to me. I learned this the hard way with some of the intake work I have done. I can make more peak power, but I lose some of the low end and midrange torque, and the bike's nature is changed.

I do not want to make this bike into a Daytona or Hypersports type bike.

Merge collector (high velocity/low drag):
notice angle of merge and taper of area.

Diverging collector cone(increased expansion/suction):
notice 2 inch stabilization area before 14 degree expansion cone.

 

[Avi8or]

Now this is getting interesting.............
Have you given thought to 'producing' a 'performance package', with all the bits & pieces you're making for the S3?

 

[Guest]

Thinking about it - time is the enemy. And I really don't like people enough to want to get into full production. But since I have molds and a jig built for the header, I might as well build a few parts for others.

Since I am buying tubing at only a slight discount to retail, I don't know how cheap I can build a custom header for others (I will keep records of costs and time). IF the header makes a nice gain, I HAVE considered contacting someone like Old Squid or Wolf to see if they want the final header dimensions in order to build them.

I am just building one (maybe a couple more later) for myself in order to get what I want. I don't see anything that I really like on the market yet.

If I did a "kit", would want to have a tune (Tuneboy) available for each step of the way - modified stock header, air ducting, velocity stacks, custom header, etc.
I don't know how many would be interested in this.

 

[briank]

i would be VERY interested ;D

 

[Guest]

+1 and I suspect loads of others from T595 Net.

Mark

 

[Guest]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[HarriS]

Looks like the stock cast turns from head are the same as on Daytona. They will take a 41mm tube without trouble. The 38mm tube is widened to 41mm to fit the curve. They do not look very fancy though. That would save some work. Anybody donate a stock header? ;D

 

[cheapbastard]

If I did a "kit", would want to have a tune (Tuneboy) available for each step of the way - modified stock header, air ducting, velocity stacks, custom header, etc.
I don't know how many would be interested in this.

;D hope it's cheap! ;D

 

[kuhlka]

I might play with this myself on my bike this winter as I need to take the header off and clean things up really well anyway...

 

[ctrhenry]

if i suppy material what would you charge for a titanium header flange ,

or how much for a cad file of the flange dimensions ?