[Andhedrew]

OK guys...

I've got my new Trident exhaust with the connections for both high and low mounting. My question is: Is the map for the low configuration going to be the same as for the high?

I ask because I have installed the can in the low mount config. and am waiting for the hanging bracket (lost at customs) for the high mount. I have a long trip to my "local" Triumph dealer for the tune. Am thinking I will probably prefer the high mount and am wondering whether I should wait until I am able to install it high before going to get the map. Any suggestions?

 

[kuhlka]

If its the exact same muffler then yes, you'd use the same map for both positions.

 

[Guest]

There are different tunes for a either a low mount or high mount aftermarket pipe. This is because of the mid-pipe (different length and bend). In your case, I'd load the high tune and take it easy until the pipe is configured properly. The map will not be optimum but you'll be fine.

 

[kuhlka]

That might be a Triumph dealership moneymaking scheme though to get you to pay for a tune you don't need. The Tuneboy tunes only show stock can or aftermarket can. A slightly longer bend of tubing isn't going to make a huge difference in your fuel mapping. However, going from a stock muffler to an open/race design muffler is a BIG difference.

If you really want to be dialed in, take the bike to a dyno and get a tuneboy or PCIII.

 

[Guest]

I honestly doubt it's a moneymaking scheme . More likely, the tunes were developed for better rideability when the customer complained after buying an other-than-stock exhaust and to support their own brand of off-road cans.
I don't see where Tuneboy tunes only show stock can or aftermarket can. When I look at http://www.tuneboy.com.au/TuneDownloads/Tunes.html I see tunes for both high and low cans.
And yes, there is a difference between high and low cans. Low will give you more HP BECAUSE there are less bends and the high looks faster. That being said, I have a BW underseat because it looks cool.

 

[kuhlka]

Sorry, I was referring to my own short list of applicable tunes on the tuneboy website not the old t595 and t509 tunes. From 2000 on all you'll see is Aftermarket or stock and SAI or none. I got my current tune from T595.net.

The Powermax undertail exhaust, for example, has gotten dyno numbers identical to my Triumph high mount carbon fiber race can. Also, I've read exhaust research briefs in tech magazines showing research and development data which proves putting bends in an exhaust creates a negligible change in power. Most of your power (hp vs torque) is determined by the muffler or lack thereof.

Now if we're talking non-mandrel bends that look like holy hell in a handbasket, then yeah, lots of ugly bends in an exhaust pipe makes a big difference, but adding 6-12" of pipe to put the exhaust higher on the bike doesn't mean crap. I've done that with my own exhaust to no effect.

Also, the reason some of the guys who are doing tuneboy tunes are submitting 'high mount' or 'low mount' exhaust maps is because they're tunes they've created themselves and they are mentioning the type of exhaust they have. There is a difference between the low mount Triumph off-road can and the high mount race cans, whereas Andhedrew is talking about just mounting the same pipe in a different location.

If you've got some data to show that adding 6" of gentle mandrel bends into a pipe creates a big difference in power output and applicable FI tuning, feel free to post it up. I can probably go dig up that like 20-page tuning article I read about muffler design and how they've finally figured out how to have both a quiet exhaust AND high power for racing designs. When I get a chance I'll dig that up anyway and post the scans. Its a really interesting article.

 

[Andhedrew]

I appreciate the info guys. I've installed the can in the low mount config. and it sounds pretty good. I am getting some popping and such when down shifting but I expected that without the tune.

I am having a heck of a time getting a seal on the connections though and may still wait for the hanger to arrive so that I may raise the can to the high mount config. before going for the map. The high mount connector has different cuts in it than the low mount so I'm hoping it will fit a bit better. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

By the way, Kuhlka, I've been doing some baby wheelies by letting off the gas in first and cracking it again. Seems to be working good but I've got to get up the nerve to go bigger. Not afraid for my own safety but that of my bike. With dirt bikes its no big deal to let it go when control is lost in a wheelie. Not sure the results would be too good if I did that with the S3. Anyway, thanks for the advice here and with the wheelie thing.

 

[kuhlka]

No problem. I don't think you'll ever be able to totally remove the popping on decel, even if you get it custom mapped at a dyno. I had fairly extensive dyno mapping done on mine at one point and it still let off a loud bang when I chopped the throttle. Removal of the SAI system totally gets rid of the banging, but if you live in a state where thats a nono, you'll just have to live with it. I didn't mind the noise too much, but when you're flying down through some twisties, its best not to alert everyone within a mile radius that some noisey bike is around (police).

 

[Guest]

The Powermax undertail exhaust, for example, has gotten dyno numbers identical to my Triumph high mount carbon fiber race can.

I don't doubt that. Slip-ons are more for styling/sound.

but adding 6-12" of pipe to put the exhaust higher on the bike doesn't mean crap. I've done that with my own exhaust to no effect.

Measured on the same dyno with identical conditions?

If you've got some data to show that adding 6" of gentle mandrel bends into a pipe creates a big difference in power output and applicable FI tuning, feel free to post it up.

Of course I don't have the data to show that it creates a "big difference". None of our bolt-ons do with the exception of Nitrous/turbo/superchargers. But it does make a difference if you're after all you can get. The guys at Wilcox have done extensive dyno testing on our beloved triumphs and they determined that the low pipe makes more hp http://www.wilcoxengines.demon.co.uk/triindex.htm. This makes sense because no matter how pretty the bend, it is still an obstruction (especially on some high-pipes that are using an s-bend). With any obstruction (or additional length), gas velocity is reduced, thereby reducing the scavenging effect. This is what requires a change to the map because the AFR has been affected. On our FI systems it means adjusting the fuel tables for maximum power/ride-ability. If our FI system used a MAF then the computer could sense, measure, and adjust for moderate changes on the intake system (but now I'm rambling).
A good resource for anyone really interested in tuning is http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/.

 

[kuhlka]

Measured on the same dyno with identical conditions?

Same dyno, maybe a slight difference in humidity and a few degrees Farenheit. Other than that, about as close as you can get without sitting at a dyno and changing the mount the same hour.

It'll be interesting to see if Andy gets any kind of change with the kit. I guess we'll have to wait and see. If you get it to a dyno, see if they'll let you use the same map for both mounting positions just to test it out... Maybe warm the bike up and do a few runs with it in the low position then remount it to the high, do a few more runs and THEN start doing a custom map or download the 'proper' map.

 

[Andhedrew]

Hey guys,

I know this is a bit off the subject but didn't want to start a new thread...

I am having difficulty getting the leaks out of my pipe connections. I'm close, but not completely sealed. Would using silicone rtv be a worthwhile "fix" to seal the gaps? I've seen on other forums that people were trying it but nobody ever listed results. I work for a siicon-science chemical company so I have access to all types. I know that, in theory, it should work. But I don't know if there is any drawback that I am not seeing.

AND, can anyone tell my where I can find a good stainless steel band clamp to use? I've about stripped the bolt head on the stock one? JEGS makes some sweet ones for automotive use. Any idea whether one of their's could possibly fit?

 

[Guest]

High-temp O2 sensor safe RTV is perfect for what you need. You can probably find the clamp you're looking for at a local motorcycle or speed shop.

 

[Guest]

I have been using the high temp RTV on my 1979 and it works.

 

[Andhedrew]

How do you know if its O2 sensor safe? ???

 

[Guest]

My Permatex "Ultra Copper" #101BR shows "Sensor-Safe" under the title or
"No Dana Sensores De Oxigeno" for the Italian lads 8)

 

[Andhedrew]

Thanks Tracker.

Well, I got the remap today. The guys doing it told me that they only download one type and that is "the Triumph performance map". Basically, they told me that it always works and that they have had, on occasion, guys with Power Commanders come in, take the PC off and have service download the previously mentioned "Triumph performance map". Anyway, the bike runs beautifully whatever they did. Now I've just got to get those leaks fixed. ;D