[Guest]

Since the Speed Triple engine do not use a knock sensor and maximum timing, I have been seriously considering adding it to my bike. J&S Electronics - http://www.jandssafeguard.com/ makes a unit that adds a Bosch knock sensor and measures the resistance across the plug gap to determine preignition and knock. This allows the unit to advance timing to maximum (10 or 20 degrees) unless it senses abnormal ignition. If it does, it retards timing in just the offending cylinder, and only by a couple of degrees at a time. This gives maximum power for the atmospheric conditions and fuel used - all of the time.

They also offer a gauge that shows timing retard (knock) and Air/Fuel ratio with the stock oxygen sensor. It will also have a 2 bar MAP sensor to retard timing under boost (for the future plans). This would allow better tuning for part throttle mapping.

I have talked with John at J&S and he is putting together a quote for a unit that is specific for a 3-cylinder, coil-on-plug inductive ignition, engine.

I MUST have one!

:

 

[Avi8or]

Keep us in the loop Devious.
When I see a light at the end of the mods tunnel, it suddenly goes all dark again.
Wayne 'Tuneboy' reckons there's quite a bit of extra ponies to be had with advancing the ignition on the 1050.
Of course too advance much could kill 'em real quick.
A knock sensor should keep 'em healthy.

 

[Guest]

OK, I finally god John at J&S to build me a unit for a 3-cylinder engine and get it in the mail. It WILL be here tomorrow.

The unit I ordered is the Viper. It monitors resistance across the spark plug gap and a Bosch knock sensor to adjusts timing per cylinder up to either 10 or 20 degrees - in 1 or 2 degree incriments, depending on how the unit is set. The Viper also has an internal 2bar map sensor that can be used to adjust timing under boost (turbo anyone).

I added the dual O2 and ignition retard display. This should really help determine what the engine wants at less than full throttle, and improve full throttle power throughout the rev range.

Now if I can just get back on the dyno next week.

 

[Guest]

Dev be da man 8)

 

[Guest]

Everything arrived yesterday morning. I have only had a chance to look it all over. I spent the day working on Hivel's exhaust and header (coating, grinding, etc.)... another pre-cat bites the dust. ;D

I will read through the documentation and instructions today and get it installed ASAP. Photos and more info to follow soon.

 

[racecomp]

All sounds good how much $$$$, the Daytona motor takes stupid amounts of advance without any signs of knock.. The only time I had a problem was with some crap fuel and you could here it as plain as day.
Road riding, the motor tells you when things are not right. You just need to understand the signals. Knock is a load related so rpm figures are usually slow.
1 second at 10’000 rpm is 166 revaluations per cylinder, by the time you hear a problem it’s already doing damage. This is why if you here knock or pinking get off the gas straight away it’s killing the motor.

A Top fuel dragster motors that revs to 7000 rpm only does 525 revulsions in a 4.5 second qtr mile pass. That’s not a lot of revulsions but the damage can be devastating.

 

[Guest]

Pricing - http://www.jandssafeguard.com/orders.html

RaceComp - I KNOW all about detonation and the related damage. If you hear knock, it is way too late. That is exactly why I wanted one of these units to test since I heard about them several years ago.

Up to this point, I have been relatively conservative about additional timing advance and tuning in general. But I look at the timing curves (stock, and those dne by Wayne MacDonald) and I know the engine wants more timing - especially on the top end and at part throttle. Now I can get more agressive without worrying about preignition and detonation. The Ultra Safeguard uses the resistance accross the plug gap, the knock sensor, and a MAP sensor to detect irregular combustion and reduce timing BEFORE I can cause damage.

And I CAN cause damage. It has been said I can break an anvil with a rubber mallet.  :

 

[Guest]

I was going to post photos of the parts, but they are available on the company's web site.

Wiring in is fairly straight forward. I am mounting the box under the seat. Use splicing connectors to connect specific leads to each coil negative wire and coil #1 positive. Connect/splice MAP sensor to vacuum lines. Connect Bosch knock sensor (connector was left out but I am sourcing one today). Mount knock sensor to thickest part of engine with through bolt.

The dual gauge connects easily to the main unit with plugs for retard display. And the AFR connects to the stock O2 sensor. I am looking at gauge mounting options - a mount will need to be fabricated. I'm still not sure if I want to mount it high near the stock gauge cluster, or low on the handle bar.

Testing procedures are well explained in the instructions, as are the sensitivity adjustments.

You can set it for 10 or 20 degrees of retard in 1 or 2 degree increments. And naterally asperated or forced induction modes.

With 10 degrees of automated ignition retard (in 1 degree increments), I plan on adding 6 degrees more advance to the tune. And where the unit shows that it is pulling advance, I will reduce it (and/or add fuel) until it no longer activates. This should really help tune the midrange and top end much better. We'll see.

Once it is all installed, I will post photos and an initial review.

 

[Avi8or]

In the good old days I'd advance the distributer and lug the car in top gear up a hill. If I got no ping, then I'd try a bit more advance. If it started to ping I'd back off advance a bit.
Guess things have moved on a bit.

I reckon that Speedy can do with a few more degrees advance in high load low rpm ranges (high gear, low rpm's and open throttle) besides the midrange and top end

Damn tree huggers dictate retarded ignition for emissions purposes, leading to potential power wastage.

Just a reminder Dev that Wayne advised me that he did add in 3 degrees advance in the upper range in the 20088Tune_Dyno39.dat.

 

[Guest]

Avi8or,
I hope I didn't sound like I was going to add advance just for the sake of adding it. This device should allow me to test without worring about detonation.

 

[Guest]

I spent a good part of Sunday installing the system. I still need to get the connector for the Bosch knock sensor that was left out, but that is a simple fix.

I've mounted the gauge temporarily, and have made templates for a billet mount. I have to work on other projects today, but I should have this up and running very soon.