trouble starting 06 S3

3055 Views 19 Replies 10 Participants Last post by jimmydean, Feb 8, 2008

zmann

Discussion Starter · Jun 12, 2006

hello,
Hoping for new ideas on how to fix this one.
06 S3 with under 4k miles on it. The engine sporadically will not start.
This seems to happen mostly if I turn it off, wait for 20-40min, and then try to restart the engine- The starter motor cranks strongly but the engine will not catch. If I try to restart immediately after turning the engine off, it fires right up. If I try to restart when it's completely cold, it fires after 5-10 cranks. Once started, it runs without issue.

I've removed the tip-over valve
I've check the battery
I get gas at different stations (but always 91 octane)
I've check the side-stand and clutch sensor (although a malfunction with these would keep the starter from cranking at all)
I'm starting it in neutral (and, yes, I'm holding the clutch)
I'm only pushing the start button, not touching the throttle
I've opened the tank to make sure there's no vacuum
I've just ordered a Tuneboy

I haven't yet pulled the plugs but there shouldn't be any water in them as the bike has never been doused...

Any other suggestions or people experiencing this?

Thanks,
Zohar

reposted at:
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http://t595.net/messageboard/thread.asp?thread=38206

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Avi8or

· #2 · Jun 12, 2006

I think you've covered all the possibilities.
Mine starts immediately when warm.
When cold it takes a few turns of the crank but never fails to start.
Lately seems to start quicker when cold.
TORS installed and appropriate map also.

I suspect you're getting some sort of vapour lock, try and keep your fuel lines cool..........sorry my 2c.....as I've said you've already covered most possibilities.

G

· #3 · Jun 12, 2006

just one question, have you adjusted the throttle recently. if so it could be too tight causing the throttle body to stay open confusing the comp.

jimmydean

· #4 · Aug 30, 2007

Zman- i've seen this post is a little old, but I'm having the same issues. Did you evre figure it out?
I Went on a two day ride and I was getting very nervous if I was going to be able to get home. Its a terrible feeling and the starter cranks so hard but nothing! I posted this quest under Devbadabing as well.

zmann

Discussion Starter · #5 · Aug 31, 2007

jimmydean said:
Zman- i've seen this post is a little old, but I'm having the same issues. Did you evre figure it out?
I Went on a two day ride and I was getting very nervous if I was going to be able to get home. Its a terrible feeling and the starter cranks so hard but nothing! I posted this quest under Devbadabing as well.

No real change. Since the original post I've also:

tried a few different tunes
tried changing the mix in the low rpm and/or low throttle positions (this shouldn't matter, I'm told)
tried altering the prime pulse
change the plugs to iridium tips

I get fairly good results by giving some gas either before or during the attempted start.

There have been a few other people posting about this on this forum and the other.

to summarize:

cold start- takes 3-5 full seconds for engine to catch
hot start- engine starts almost immediately (on first or second crank of starter motor)
warm start (after bike's been sitting for something like 20 to 40 mins)- Here is the problem. The engine takes many many start attempts before firing.

I think it's the ECU.

ZM

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HarriS

· #6 · Aug 31, 2007

More likely some sensor than the ecu.

jimmydean

· #7 · Aug 31, 2007

thats excactly my problem Zman!
the warm starts are the pain.....sounds like the starter is going to jump out and run away!
I have a tune boy but dont know how to address this issue with. Thought about claiming it under warranty and maybe they will replace the ECU but I'm scared they are going to say NO WAY do to the different tune by me messing with the the ECU with Tune boy.

G

· #8 · Aug 31, 2007

I Had a similar problem with my 06 sp3 not wanting to start cold. It would take 4 or 5 attempts, but once started it would fire up no problem. My Dealer checked the ecu for faults( no faults shown), reset the the ecu settings back to default, & tweeked the injection settings. this has sorted the problem. bike now starts & runs, fine both cold & hot.

zmann

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 20, 2007

Howdy,
I'm consolidating the users/threads/suggestions for this issue since it keeps coming up. There are probably a few different issues happening here since some folks' starting problems seemed to get resolved by some of the suggested fixes below. Mine has not been.

Symptoms:

****1050 Triumph Speed Triple****

COLD START (engine is cold)- Starter cranks for ~5 full seconds before engine will catch.

HOT START (engine is very hot from very recent use)- engine starts almost immediately (on first or second crank of starter motor)

WARM START (engine is cooling down- maybe 20-50 mins since being driven hard)- Here is the main problem. The engine takes many many start attempts before firing. A few mins at least.

Suggested causes/fixes:

-Bad fuel needs to be replaced with higher octane fuel
-Throttle should not be touched when starting bike- just push starter button
-Loose positive battery connection needs to be tightened
-Battery is weak and needs to be recharged/replaced
-Throttle cable is too tight and needs to be loosened
-Plugs are fouled and need to be replaced
-There are kinks in fuel line
-There is vacuum pressure in tank b/c breather hoses are swapped or tipover valve is reversed or broken- check/remove tipover valve under tank
-Change tune/map
-Reduce prime pulse setting (tuneboy)
-Do "10 min tune"- let bike idle for 10-15 mins at riding temp to reset ECU?
-Change sprag clutch?
-Idle air control valve is not open far enough during cranking?

Suggested possible work arounds:

-Start with little bit of throttle then release and restart
-Turn on electrics and then wait 60sec before cranking starter

Other threads discussing symptoms:

http://www.triumphrat.net/showthread.php?t=30239
http://www.triumphrat.net/showthread.php?t=34450
http://www.triumphrat.net/showthread.php?t=35775
http://www.triumphrat.net/showthread.php?t=63730

http://www.thespeedtriple.com/Forums/index.php?topic=113.0
http://www.thespeedtriple.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3207.0
http://www.thespeedtriple.com/Forums/index.php?topic=3100.0
http://www.thespeedtriple.com/Forums/index.php?topic=391.0

Owners claiming symptoms in previous posts:

thespeedtriple.com:

zmann
jimmydean
zachzinda
supergiantrobot
milq

triumphrat.net users:

zmann
jimmydean
s3paul
jdub3
OG-MOON
Shwaa_Catcher
edet
viktorbgd
jayb
Ed Earl
kneebone
Tee-dub
Hairball
HiVel
rudebwoy85
Lom
drainbamage
diego
FB
DRJONES

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milq

· #10 · Sep 23, 2007

Nice work on consolidation zmann, I have had some long crank issues as well with no cure. Mine seems to be related to ambient air temp when stopped vs. ambient temps the following morning. (ie hot nights, cool mornings)

Du to my comute and all, I rarely have occasion for the bike to be recranked after sitting for 20 minutes, usually it sits all day and starts OK in the evenings.

Feel free to move this post if ya want, but I sus[ect it's a related issue.

zmann

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 23, 2007

added milq to the list.
Cheers,
ZM

xxjonesxx

· #12 · Oct 8, 2007

FYI - I only had cold start problems (and they were minimal) It would take about 5 seconds to start cold other than that never a problem starting.

BUT, now that my bike is running too rich (another topic) the starting is soooooo fast every time.

AA

· #13 · Oct 13, 2007

I mentioned long cranking time before starting to my service manager recently.
His response was that the long crank time is to save wear on the sprag clutch.
If she fires too soon it can catch the little fucker.
Might be some truth in it. I know some guys have had problems with their sprags.

AA

HARVEE

· #14 · Oct 15, 2007

i have been suffering the warm start troubles.but have stumbled across a possible cure for mine.all last summer it was a pig to go when warm,then put some fuel stabiliser in for winter period,come spring and it was fine for the first 3+ tankfulls of new juice then started to do it again this summer, before going away for 6 wks i topped up with some stabiliser and has been good since.
just a coincidence maybe.

jimmydean

· #15 · Oct 18, 2007

ok I had my ride at the dealer and they called Triumph, which told them to dowload a different map and change the plugs and they are sending a "clutch- starter kit bypass" I think that's what they said, but I cant find the paper they wrote on. So:
I am waiting on the kit
Have new plugs
And the Dealer put a fuq'd up tune in it and said it ran great. On the way home (1hr) it popped so loud every downshift i thought a gun was going off close to my ear :finger: changed it back when i got home. Guess I'll have to change it back when I go back to them as I didn't want them to know that I can change it for fear that Triumph would not honor the problem.
I will let you all know when I get that kit in and see what it does, In the meantime I have noticed turning it on for a min before starting is working.

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iwokeupwithgills

· #16 · Oct 28, 2007

I am only having cold start problems with my '04 - the bike starts fine hot and warm - but after sitting overnight, it is hard, gives me several false-starts and takes 2 or 3 crank attempts.
I havent tried any of the fixes listed in this thread - but as i do i will give info on what works for me :sign7:

jimmydean

· #17 · Nov 15, 2007

i think you are the only one. Warm starts seem to be the "in" problem :eboy:
ok so I had the "clutch starter kit" Triumph sent to my dealer for my warm start problem. My dealer said the new clutch starter is bigger and using the analogy of a big pry bar as leverage ove a small one. I cant tell you if this worked cuz it's so darn cold around here so I'm not riding....but i will tell you all that loud/ strange noise when starting is gone and it starts almost instanly now. :wrench:

HARVEE

· #18 · Nov 15, 2007

whats a clutch- starter kit bypass

..and how it work ???

bierdo

· #19 · Feb 8, 2008

You only running 91 octane?, doesn't the manual state 94 or higher.

I run 98 octane in mine.

My bike only seems to give me grief if the battery is run down a bit, bought myself a battery tender / trickle charger, will leave this on bike every night, hopefully this'll fix my battery woes.

Sorted your bike out yet?

jimmydean

· #20 · Feb 8, 2008

oh shit! guess i forgot to update this :violent1:
Bike starts first rotation since they put the kit on - which Triumph paid for. I was pissed the dealer though because they changed the plugs since it was about 2k away fro needed and they charged me 60 bucks in labor!
Anyway as far as I rembr the clutch starter kit was something about the size of the rotor inside. I cant rembr if it was change to be smaller or bigger, but my guess was bigger. No problems since

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